A Catastrophic failure exposes IBM weaknesses.

[David Abramowitz]

Did you verify what the warranty covers, and what it doesn't. Just because IBM stated that you weren't covered, doesn't necessarily mean that that is true. I don't have any answers here, but it sounds awful fishy that an installation process could be warranteed for a full year, and not the machine. Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

David, I agree with you. It may have been a case of the gatekeeper not knowing the rules. But, I couldn't get past the gatekeepers. I tried, a couple of times, to move my call up to a supervisor with no luck. And, after I was in with Rochester maintenance personnel, I called back and DEMANDED to talk to the call center manager or supervisor. I was put on hold and routed to another technician. No matter what I said or did, I could not get to management. I can only think that they were either instructed to treat me this way or there was no management on site. It was an exasperating experience and very different than any I've encountered from IBM before. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "David Abramowitz" wrote in message news:6ae6c5bf.0@WebX.WawyahGHajS... | Did you verify what the warranty covers, and what it doesn't. | | Just because IBM stated that you weren't covered, doesn't necessarily mean that that is true. | | I don't have any answers here, but it sounds awful fishy that an installation process could be warranteed for a full year, and not the machine. | | Dave

[J.Pluta]

...who are absolutely thrilled with IBM service. Please check out my column, the paragraph titled "More fun with IBM services": http://www.mcpressonline.com/mc?1@17...ae.1@.6ae6296d Joe

[dbrunner@co.kenosha.wi.us]

Chuck, It has long been known that Software Subscription, Software Support Line, and Hardware Maintenance have been separate service contracts. Anyone who has been in this business, and on this system, as long as you claim you have, would know this. Now, IBM has rolled Subscription and Support Line into one offering, but only after your current contracts expire. IBM Hardware Maintenance will still be a separate service offering. Contrary to your statement that "I understood that new installs and upgrades have a 1 year warranty." your understanding was completely false. I challenge you to find that clause in your upgrade contract. Only brand new installations of machines carry the 1 year warranty caveat. Upgrades, and upgrade paths never have. That is one of the reasons you take the path, because you save money, and if under a current Hardware Maintenance contract, it will cover the new stuff, as well, as long as it's MES. You didn't buy a new 820, you upgraded an older 720. But it still appears that your problem was not with your upgraded CPU, but with the expansion tower. And I will bet you even money that the expansion tower isn't even from the 720, but from an earlier hardware box. So you figure it out. Why would IBM give you a 1 year warranty over equipment (an old tower) that you obviously did not just purchase new? You constantly tout your years of experience on this platform, but your recent dissemination of misinformation, and the general overall IBM bashing you have engaged in, leads me to believe that a lot of your problems stem more from mismanagement, and lack of technical and bussiness savy, than just bad luck. Sorry I have to flame you this way, I just got tired of reading the same lies in every Forum you post to. Someone needed to set you straight, and you always seem to have hours to write your "bad experiences" a day after you haven't slept, for like the whole weekend. Dale W. Brunner

[Guest.Visitor]

Backup strategy. Always make sure you know how long it is going to take you to recover when developing a backup strategy. If you are using save changed objects in conjuction with a full save, realize that you are putting lots of trust in that full save set. Suppose you lose the full save, then you are in big trouble. IBM has made changes to support recently. I am glad I have a good IBM business partner that alerts me to the changes and explains everything clearly. Scott

[Guest.Visitor]

Dale, Wow. You have a lot of anger within you to make such a sweeping and, by the way, inaccurate personal attack upon me. 1. Yes, I know that software and hardware support are separate. My point in mentioning that I got through quickly to software is that their files apparently up to date. Apparently, hardware isn't so accurate. Even my local IBM sales rep had no clue that we were on an 820, which we purchased last December. IBM's databases are sorely inaccurate. 2. If you know anything about the MES 720 to 820 upgrade then you know that the expansion tower is almost completely gutted and replaced with new parts during this upgrade. Some old things remain such as the SPD cage. The new parts ARE covered under warranty. The part that failed was installed 2 weeks earlier. 3. I don't have my contract in front of me but my BP assures me that we have a 1 year warranty. This a very experienced BP with many years of experience selling many AS/400 systems. Once I got him involved all of my gateway problems within IBM disappeared. Finally, attacking people personally and calling them liars when it's simply not the case is grossly unprofessional. Something that makes my jaw drop in an AS/400 forum. I'd expect that in the Microsoft FrontPage forum but not here. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Dale W. Brunner" wrote in message news:6ae6c5bf.3@WebX.WawyahGHajS... | Chuck, | It has long been known that Software Subscription, Software Support Line, and Hardware Maintenance have been separate service contracts. Anyone who has been in this business, and on this system, as long as you claim you have, would know this. Now, IBM has rolled Subscription and Support Line into one offering, but only after your current contracts expire. IBM Hardware Maintenance will still be a separate service offering. | | Contrary to your statement that "I understood that new installs and upgrades have a 1 year warranty." your understanding was completely false. I challenge you to find that clause in your upgrade contract. Only brand new installations of machines carry the 1 year warranty caveat. Upgrades, and upgrade paths never have. That is one of the reasons you take the path, because you save money, and if under a current Hardware Maintenance contract, it will cover the new stuff, as well, as long as it's MES. You didn't buy a new 820, you upgraded an older 720. But it still appears that your problem was not with your upgraded CPU, but with the expansion tower. And I will bet you even money that the expansion tower isn't even from the 720, but from an earlier hardware box. So you figure it out. Why would IBM give you a 1 year warranty over equipment (an old tower) that you obviously did not just purchase new? | | You constantly tout your years of experience on this platform, but your recent dissemination of misinformation, and the general overall IBM bashing you have engaged in, leads me to believe that a lot of your problems stem more from mismanagement, and lack of technical and bussiness savy, than just bad luck. | | Sorry I have to flame you this way, I just got tired of reading the same lies in every Forum you post to. Someone needed to set you straight, and you always seem to have hours to write your "bad experiences" a day after you haven't slept, for like the whole weekend. | | Dale W. Brunner

[dbrunner@co.kenosha.wi.us]

[dbrunner@co.kenosha.wi.us]

Chuck, Paragraph 1. Did you have hardware maintenance over your entire system, when you called for support? I doubt it. You ASSUMED that your "new" 820 would be covered by maintenance, without contractual, written, confirmation. IBM would have no record if your Business Partner (BP) had not provided them with the updated record. Or are you just again assuming that because you got the "upgrade" that IBM owed you the support? The IBM database might be inaccurate because your BP is negligent in linking their input, and database, with IBM. Don't give me this "local IBM sales rep" BS. You bought from a business partner, and that partners job is to make sure that all of your "ducks" are in order. Don't blame IBM when your "BP" has left you "high and dry" due to their misunderstanding of their responsibility. If you had these problems, why didn't you call your BP whan your system went haywire? Paragrph 2. The expansion towers are always gutted. That's because they take out the guts to put your new CPU in the main unit. All of your SPD and old drives can exist in the tower, and still give you the functionality they had before. That's the beauty of an "upgrade". You once again have misrepresented the truth, and the part that failed was not something "new" that came with the upgrade. Even if you "claim" the part that failed was "new", it was still located in an "old" expansion tower, that was not covered by your hardware maintenance contract (which you failed to renew). Paragraph 3. If you had a problem, why didn't you call your BP first? If they got involved, and all of your problems disappeared, I think I would have called their hotline first. Finally, I'm not "grossly unprofessional". I just think you have soiled these pages with unsubstantiated, and unsupported claims about your problems. If you have problems, why do you always seem to blame the service, that you obviously have not entered into a contract with? Have you ever considered the fact that your hardware problems are only .05% of all the problems ever posted in this forum? Why haven't the rest of us experienced the same calamities you have? No one else seems to have given you the "amen brother". Once again, I think it's because the "unproffesional" tag belongs somewhere else. If your "jaw" is droping, then get out of the kitchen, cause you obviously can't take the heat. You reap what you sow, and when you cut the budget to make yourself a hero, don't complain when you have to pay the piper. Actually, Chuck, this will be my last post to this Forum. I am REALLY tired of dealing with your inane posts, that never offered any real insight, or solutions, for the problems we have presented. Your posts have completely "turned me off" to what this venue could have been. I will not deal with arogant, uppity, and self agrandizing, posts, such as I find yours. Thank You, and Good Bye. Dale W. Brunner

[Guest.Visitor]

I kinda like Chuck's posts, most of them anyway. ;-) If you don't want to hear from someone but still want to hang out, you can use a newsreader with a kill filter to access the forums. I read every post here and I've never seen a reason to killfile *anyone*. We're all civil. There's a healthy discourse going on here, and we should strive to keep it that way. Brian

[Guest.Visitor]

Dale, Getting back to upgrades being on warranty... In 1978 I purchased an upgrade from a System/3 model 10 to a System/3 model 15B. IBM worked closely with me in presenting it to management. Part of the ROI was that the upgrade came with a warranty. 12 months. This was a huge part of the justification since System/3 maintenance, as I recall, was about $2,000 per month. In 1979 that was a lot of money. At the end of about 10 months after the upgrade, IBM sent me a mailing notifying me that my System/3 would be out of warranty shortly and asking me if I wanted to go on maintenance. In the mid-80s I upgraded two System/38 model 400s to System/38 model 700s. This was one of the easiest upgrades because only minor changes occurred to the S/38. But, at a huge cost! Again, the upgrade allowed us to eliminate maintenance charges for 12 months. Again IBM sent a notice after 10 months requesting us to put it on maintenance. In the 90s I upgraded an AS/400 B45 to an E50. Same scenario. No maintenance for a year. Started maintenance after 12 months. This was through a BP. I also did an upgrade from a 520 to a 620. Same warranty again. This was through a BP. So, I can only assume one of two things. 1) IBM may have changed policy in the last 5 years. 2) Doreesa knew nothing. For all I know she may have been hired 2 weeks ago. In any event, I never saw an IBM contract. I contracted with my BP. He claims I have a 1 year warranty. I believe him (based upon history) and don't expect I'll pay anything on this service call. It's entirely possible that my BP hadn't updated my record. I'll grant that one. Especially since things cleared up fast once they got involved. What was NOT excusable was the attitude of almost every gatekeeper I talked to. They treated me like a teenager trying to sneak into the movie theatre through the back door. Their attitudes were condescending and patronizing. IBM used to be defined by their stellar customer service. No more. IBM has lost their edge when it comes to customer service. Dale incorrectly claimed: "You once again have misrepresented the truth, and the part that failed was not something "new" that came with the upgrade. Even if you "claim" the part that failed was "new", it was still located in an "old" expansion tower, that was not covered by your hardware maintenance contract (which you failed to renew)." Not according to the CE that serviced the part. He was, in fact, the same CE that did the upgrade. I can only believe what I was told since I didn't do the work myself. I expect the CE that told me the part was new would have a little more credibility on this issue. Dale asked: "Paragraph 3. If you had a problem, why didn't you call your BP first? If they got involved, and all of your problems disappeared, I think I would have called their hotline first." Yeah, right. If you're in a car accident bleeding on the side of the road are you going to call your insurance company or dial 911? Get real, Dale, have you ever been in a computer emergency situation? Dale said: "Actually, Chuck, this will be my last post to this Forum." That's a shame! chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.