Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

[frankgw@adelphia.net]

Serge - On what are they basing this dismal prediction? Just an old mainframer caught in the Web!

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

When reading a Gartner Group study, one should keep one's tongue firmly planted in one's cheek. Most Gartner studies I have come across (I'm sure there are execptions) do not represent the Group, but rather the individual writer. When viewing Gartner information concerning the AS/400, you will find conflicting conclusions based upon the author. Gartner studies, while purporting to be independent, often indicate the level of knowledge the author may have concerning the various platforms. I have read studies that appear to be a compendium of press releases, and marketing figures, rather than showing an in depth knowledge of the platforms mentioned. Yet other studies by Gartner are favorable to the AS/400. It all depends. David Abramowitz

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

My feeling, for what it's worth, is that the Gartner Group haven't got it far wrong, though I differ with their rationale. I don't believe for a minute that Unix is a contender, having worked with that machine and still hurting (after 8 years) from its limitations. Unix is a casuality of its own virtue - the open standards thing that it championned are the open standards of the '70s - and they just don't work today. Nor can Unix be readily adapted to an OS of today or the future - far too many software vendors rely on Unix being just what it is, and no company's future is staked on Unix's future (they'll port their product to whatever OS is in vogue - but they will never agree on a new look Unix). NT and OS/400 are the only participants for tomorrow, and the odds are staked heavily in NT's favour. Why not OS/400? There's another thread in the ILE forum concerning Java v. RPG IV/ILE. I think the essential point is being missed. It's Java v. OS/400. And what side is IBM on? I don't know, and nor do they seem to know, either. If their Java hype team get their way, then it's not RPG IV that loses, but the whole OS/400 we know and love. Take a look at the Java documentation on the Rochester books site, and you'll get a feel for just how back-row OS/400 has become - everything that once made OS/400 unique is just another Java class. And Bill Gates must be killing himself - kill Java and you kill OS/400 all at once. All you have to do is wait. And survive. What's left? - NT, and no need for pesky alliances with other wannabe software companies that will change their tune tomorrow if their fate favours it. So my guess is NT wins by default, if indeeed it be a contest between only two players. My one ray of sunshine through this whole diatribe of cynicism, is that there's something unnatural about the way we IT people take it as given that, as far as OS vendors go, winner takes all. Unless there is some physical constraint, or a strong presence of thuggery, monopolies do not win out as a matter of course. Other players will emerge, and Bill Gates will find himself thinking the same thoughts Henry Ford thought when his dream run on automobiles finally ended. By the way, I don't know if Ford's dominance ended before Henry's demise, but I think he would have expired earlier if anyone had suggested four Japanese companies would be part of it - and I suspect he would have been buried with a wider smile.

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On Monday, April 27, 1998, 04:56 PM, Serge Blain1 wrote: I have access to the Gartner Group articles that they put out each month. They are very negative about the future of the 400. They feel that Windows NT will start taking ever increasing share of the Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) market. They even link Unix and the AS/400 as very stable systems. I cannot imagine how any one could lump Unix with the stability of the 400. In many of the companies I have worked for we had both, Unix was very unstable as compared to the 400. Any comments out there. Should we start learning Visual Basic, Java and C++. Just pondering the future. By the way, Gartner Group believes the AS/400 will not be a major system by the year 2004 and beyond. Replaced by NT and Unix. Serge Blain sergeblain@hotmail.com

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

JV, Good piece of writing. Not sure I agree with the key conclusion thought; On Tuesday, April 28, 1998, 04:10 AM, J V Thompson wrote: ... I think the essential point is being missed. It's Java v. OS/400. And what side is IBM on? I don't know, and nor do they seem to know, either. If their Java hype team get their way, then it's not RPG IV that loses, but the whole OS/400 we know and love. Take a look at the Java documentation on the Rochester books site, and you'll get a feel for just how back-row OS/400 has become - everything that once made OS/400 unique is just another Java class.... The fight I see is JavaVM v. Windows/NT v. Unix. IBM have invested heavily in Java because, for one of the few times in their history, they have understood that the winning horse may not necessarily be one of theirs. And in the entirely proper machinations of a corporate hoping to back all of the horses in a three horse race, they have provided a JVM and a NTserver environment (via the IPCS or whatever its called now...) and a Unix environment (QSH etc.). If they do it well, IBM can only win. And more particularly OS/400 will survive as a key infrastructure component. If Java wins it will be a significant one. I would guess the author of the Gartner Group report is assuming an NT and/or Unix win, with OS/400 not evolving much in the meantime. IBM have shown, to me at least, a mercenary streak that will ensure OS/400, in one form or another, is a key player beyond 2004. Derek

[T.Holt]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

All this stuff reminds me of something I read. This may not be exact, but it's something like this: If you want to do computing, get a UNIX box. If you want to get work done, get an AS/400. (Anyone who knows the quote correctly, please feel free to correct.)

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

On Tuesday, April 28, 1998, 06:19 AM, Derek Butland wrote: JV, Good piece of writing. Not sure I agree with the key conclusion thought; On Tuesday, April 28, 1998, 04:10 AM, J V Thompson wrote: ... I think the essential point is being missed. It's Java v. OS/400. And what side is IBM on? I don't know, and nor do they seem to know, either. If their Java hype team get their way, then it's not RPG IV that loses, but the whole OS/400 we know and love. Take a look at the Java documentation on the Rochester books site, and you'll get a feel for just how back-row OS/400 has become - everything that once made OS/400 unique is just another Java class.... color=blue>Well, my question is, has Microsoft taken over the Gartner group? Maybe if IBM sold the 400 division to Microsoft suddenly it would become the OS of the future???

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

The company I work for, a leader in their field, has four AS/400s and two HP9000s running UNIX 10.x. The HPs crash on an average of once a week, backups fail almost on a daily basis and nobody knows why these things happen. There is one Sys Admin for the 400s and three for the HPs, maintenance cost per machine are more than double for the HPs and there are two third party software packages as compared to one home grown and very stable package on the 400s and on, and on... Anyway, upper management has decided they will migrate all their clients to the UNIX environment. As the one Sys Admin I wory more than anything about the fact that I dont understand why this is happening!. I would think that a company this successful would have at the very least a COMPETENT staff and that their decisions have been made only after careful consideration of other options. If this is in fact the case, then I must be very dense indeed because it is Sanskrit to me. There have to be other factors that influence this "trend?" that that the AS/400 is dying that I know nothing about, I mean, S/36 is still alive and well, isn't it? So what is it about the AS/400 that inspires all the doomsday talk? It has been stated, and I agree, that UNIX certaintly has its own place, a function for which it is better suited than the AS/400. I would say the same of every other OS out there, so, can anyone out there answer the question: What is it about the AS/400 that inspires all the doomsday talk? Thanks for your patience :-) When two go together one sees before the other.

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

Let me point out that the "GARTNER GROUP" got its start many years ago by predicting that COBOL would never be used as a programming language; This was at the time that the US government stopped buying any computers without COBOL. Bob Hamilton TEXAS BUSINESS SYSTEMS 736 Pinehurst Richardson, Texas 75080

[Guest.Visitor]

Gartner Group - End of line for AS/400

There is usually a group of people in every organization that will downplay anything they don't deal with, or have knowledge of, especially if it's an IBM product. We have such a group in our LAN admin unit. According to them Microsoft is the best thing since sliced bread. Their total familiarity is with PCs, and PC OS's, except OS/2 which was also "bashed" when it was running here. My dept. was the only champion of OS/2. I believe it's total ignorance of other hardware/software contributing to this issue. I spent over 30 years on mainframes, PCs, and other midrange gear before I was put in charge of our AS/400s. Again I'm the champion here, but I love the AS/400. I enjoy good senior mgmt with a belief in whatever platform benefits the business, which coincides with my philosophy. All we're talking about are tools, and one must use the best tools suited to the mission, and ones that take advantage of whatever technology is needed. I have offered to use my budget to educate the bashers by sending them to COMMON. No takers. They don't have time. Too many problems dealing with crashed Servers. One other thing keeps them down. My company has over 980 AS/400s deployed around the world (I only support 60 of them), and the bashers can't do anything about them. Some installations (Latin America) favor OS/2 over MS products, and fight to keep it that way. I love that too.Anyway, that's my dime.Regards. Jack McGuigan - MIS Manager - American Life Ins. Co.