contract vs full time

[Guest.Visitor]

Yes, I am employed by a consulting firm to an employer who wants me to go full time at a much lesser rate. As a contractor, I'm at 45 per hour (avg 90k year). but the employer wants me in at 65,000 per yr. I agree, I too was at 90.00 per hour. but the last feew years have taken their toll, so I'm happy to be at 45.00. but the 65,000 per yr seems very low. What does everyone think?

[David Abramowitz]

My first contracting spot was over twenty years ago, and I was getting $40.00 an hour back then, , , ,but, , , ,that was in New York City. I point that out, because the scale in different parts of the country is remarkable. What is appropriate in one area, may not be considered worthwhile 200 miles away. It is also important to point out that over the last four years, rates have dropped precipitously. The market has gone to hell in a handbasket, and it doesn't matter where you are. I am currently billing at appx 30% less than I was a few years ago, and understanding the market, I am fortunate to be getting what I am getting. More bad news: I don't see the market improving on the horizon. In fact I am having trouble seeing the horizon! Dave

[frankgw@adelphia.net]

I agree with whoever said location plays a significant role in either salary or hourly rate considerations. I'm upstate in Central New York. David Abramowitz is downstate from the New York City area. When it comes to either salary or hourly rates, these two areas might as well be 2 different planets. My niche market of contract RPG programming dried up in the late '90s. As a result I went back to being an employee in I.T. management after over 20 years of self employment as an independent contractor. Here's something else to consider. How much help will your employer be when it comes to keeping technically up to date? Who pays? Whose time does it take place on? Remember the rate of change will continue to increase along with your need to stay technically current.

[Guest.Visitor]

Steve, You are currently NOT an independent contractor, you're an employee. So, now you can compare apples to apples. If you move to another company as an employee for a lesser rate then you'd better be getting much better benefits to make up for the loss. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "steved103" wrote in message news:6aeadae5.10@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Yes, I am employed by a consulting firm to an employer who wants me to go full time at a much lesser rate. As a contractor, I'm at 45 per hour (avg 90k year). but the employer wants me in at 65,000 per yr. I agree, I too was at 90.00 per hour. but the last feew years have taken their toll, so I'm happy to be at 45.00. but the 65,000 per yr seems very low. What does everyone think?

[Guest.Visitor]

Steve asked: "but the 65,000 per yr seems very low. What does everyone think?" IMO, $65k per year is low for someone accustomed to making $90k per year. I'm surprised that the employer wants you to come on full time for that amount. It's unusual to ask someone to take a significant cut in pay to move them from contract to full time. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[Guest.Visitor]

David said: "It is also important to point out that over the last four years, rates have dropped precipitously." Yes, that's true for contractors, but not for employees. Pay scales for full time programmers have not dropped anytime in the last 28 years. David said: "The market has gone to hell in a handbasket, and it doesn't matter where you are." Again, for contractors. I am not fond of employing contractors in a "full time" environment. When I started with my current company 3 years ago we had 4 full time contract programmers. Some had been on contract here more than 5 years! Within a year I hired them. It's a whole different feeling toward them from their peers and their feeling toward the company is much better when they're employees. BTW, they all worked for a contracting company and they received raises to come on board. David said: "More bad news: I don't see the market improving on the horizon. In fact I am having trouble seeing the horizon!" It's because of that risk that I never went into independent contracting. There were times over the last decade that I could have probably doubled my salary but the worry over the future was more than I could handle. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[Guest.Visitor]

Dave, Are you currently located in New York City? Thanks, Doug.

[David Abramowitz]

Chuck, I was only referring to contractors. Not to employees. I apologize if I left any other impression. Dave

[David Abramowitz]

I was born and raised in NYC, but I currently reside in the 'burbs. I cover what is generally referred to as the "Tri-State Area" encompassing NY, NJ, and CT. In actuality only small portions of each state are in the area, but NYC is a part of it. Many of my clients have been located in NYC. I do not have any current clients there. Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Steve, Take it from someone who resembles your situation. Those figures work in Louisiana. But, they won't work wherever Chuck is from. Every other employer out there is not Chuck. Since employers like Chuck don't seed new programmers in house and don't raise salaries more than ~3%, and don't drop salaries more than ~3%, you probably can plug your numbers anywhere except California.