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Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

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  • #31
    Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

    ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
    This is a discussion about Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users.

    Click here for the article.

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    • #32
      Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

      ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
      The article says that Oracle announced it is going to port its database to the AIX and Linux partitions of the AS/400 as part of supporting IBM iseries customers, that is to say specifically, the JD Edwards RPG ERP on the AS/400. As a general technical question, what are the options of accessing a database in a different partition on the AS/400 from an RPG ERP that is any different from anywhere else on a network, that is, all the various TCP/IP connectivity options for accessing other systems anywhere? In addition, assuming that the answer that there is no such option is still the correct technical answer, of what possible benefit is there to a JD Edward RPG ERP written against DB2/400 if Oracle is running in another partition, even assuming TCP/IP transport connectivity? Some magical DDM like intercept that takes all I/O and shoots it to Oracle? And of course, lastly, why would anybody do that? rd

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      • #33
        Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

        ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
        Ralph, I don't see how the WORLD Product could use the Oracle DB either. It's virtually 100% Native I/O. The JDE WORLD development work-bench has little if any support for SQLRPG, SQLRPGLE, etc. The CASE tool cranks out RPG code using Native I/O and calls to File Server programs that also use native I/O. Basically if it's not good ole CLP or RPG, it's a pain in the you-know-what to even compile a program using their tools. IMO, getting WORLD to talk to Oracle would mean a major over-haul of the WORLD code and I don't think that's gonna happen. My limited experience with OneWorld makes me think that it could be done for that Product since it's Data Access seems to be SQL based. But why anyone (other than Oracle) would WANT to do that is another question. Mike

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        • #34
          Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

          ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
          My 2 cents... Oracle will use its 4GL tools like SQLFORMS to access I5 DB2 in writing new applications or re-engineering the JDE package instead of using the traditional RPG as a transition ( short term fix ). In the long run, they will swap from I5 DB2 to Oracle for low cost maintenance and personnel consolidation. It's a win-win for current JDE customers and Oracle. They will get a tried and tested 4GL tools with GUI capabilities and a superior database engine for the same application package. Expect to see JOB POSTINGS for Iseries like this one " Knowledge of I5 and Oracle tools a must"

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          • #35
            Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

            ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
            The point is, Oracle "porting" its database to AIX and Linux partitions (Oracle already runs under AIX and Linux - a "port" would consist of copying IBM's instructions for starting up an LPAR using OS/400 commands, possibly adding only benign smilies) has nothing to do with supporting "PeopleSoft iseries customers", a euphemism for the many still running JDE World who were concerned about being forced to migrate to OneWorld. Imagine their delight that they will now be forced to migrate to an Oracle ERP that includes selected features from PeopleSoft and OneWorld that passes Ellison's smell test. Granted, that customer list is vaunted and any software company would want to convert this flock, but "porting" Oracle to an AS/400 LPAR as marketing babble for support won't fool any AS/400 World customers. rd

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            • #36
              Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

              ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
              Hee hee! Man, I may disagree with you on some things, Ralph, but your comments never fail to make your point. And in this case I happen to agree; moving from a stable enterprise suite to a cobbled together OOWPS conglomeration running in a non-OS/400 partition is definitely a "worst of all worlds" scenario. I only wish a competent JDE consulting firm would figure out that my tool is a perfect way to give World users a GUI interface without having to migrate to whatever Oracle is selling as a solution. Joe

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              • #37
                Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                Guys, What made Oracle a success story, is not because of its database engine, but the 4GL tools that made data access, manipulation and presentation a breeze without a sweat. A no brainer for management to make their programmers focus on business rules/processes rather than the technical jargon. It has been tried and tested by small, medium and large companies running simple to complex applications, that is why it's a winner. Remember companys wants "BUSINESS SOLUTIONS" first and foremost. The underlying technology is only incidental. It killed DEC even with its powerful VAX/VMS by squeezing its revenues by providing alternative and superior programming tools and DBMS. And if history repeats itself... it will be a battle royale between "RPG, CL and DB2" vs. Oracle in the I5. Who will win?

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                • #38
                  Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                  ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                  Nobody asked me, but here's my $.02 Within four years Oracle will spin the J.D.E. products into a separate company. Dave

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                  • #39
                    Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                    ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                    Dave said "Within four years Oracle will spin the J.D.E. products into a separate company." I beg to disagree... Oracle will keep JDE for good and let it die to its natural death. The main reason why ORACLE acquired Peoplesoft/JDE is to have a footprint in the I5 platform. Once they can acquire whatever technology they wanted on the I5 by sucking JDE of its juices, they can cannibalize it like a junk car.

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                    • #40
                      Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                      ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                      IOM, what made Oracle a success was its sales force! They can sell like no others. However, I don't respect their techniques. In a Fortune magazine article circa 1998 Larry Ellison stated that he would do anything to close a sale including lying to the customer or cheating. To Ellison there is no barrier which he won't cross to make a sale. Consequently, I'll do anything possible to avoid purchasing anything sold by Oracle. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                      • #41
                        Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                        ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                        Oh good, Joe. I was afaid I might have been a little too subtle there. In my opinion, based on general package experince, GUI would be the least of a JDE shop's concerns, if there was any at all. And here I use the term GUI loosely to include web pages. As you know better than most, an AS/400 package customer cares about ongoing regulatory support, integration throughout with new technologies such as RFID to meet supply chain and internal integration requirements, ongoing advances in API's and interfaces to natively participate in industry and technological standards, and support that migrates those changes without breaking your operations or your wallet. I don't even accept that GUI as a term used by AS/400/iseries software companies, especially including IBM, is even useful or productive. That's a different argument, but certainly the various methods to move data to web pages are many and if a customer were migrating to OneWorld, for example, it's not because of "GUI", although the poor souls may have little choice but to say so, but instead because JD Edwards and then PeopleSoft were trying to make it an offer they couldn't refuse. Tony, if Oracle's apps were so superior, they wouldn't have had to pull a Microsoft and buy the superior competition with cash cow money to eliminate it. They and Microsoft think they can create virtual monopolies and charge anything they want, even forcing people to pay forever to use it. They have a long fall ahead of them. The vacuum of competition will be filled with open source, and the stampede will not be pretty. Dave, I think the drumbeat to JDE customers to move to OneWorld running against Oracle on the database server (and Tony, why would anyone run their Oracle database in a virtual Unix database server instead of a Unix database server - that's ridiculous) will be incessant, but it seems to me only good business sense to maintain enough maintenance programmers for JDE World that annual maintenance fees support to keep from abandoning the customers until they see the light, that Oracle will kill JDE. rd

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                        • #42
                          Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                          ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                          Ralph said: "if Oracle's apps were so superior, they wouldn't have had to pull a Microsoft and buy the superior competition with cash cow money to eliminate it" Because we are living in a capitalistic model. Beat your competition if possible. As I have stated, Oracle is wanting in the I5 world, although they have penetrated with much success in other platforms. This is the only room for growth left to their products. Ralph said: "why would anyone run their Oracle database in a virtual Unix database server instead of a Unix database server - that's ridiculous" This is a strong plus to Oracle... An OS is irrelevant. A DBMS and application development tools that can support any OS or hardware platform is superior. Is this not the open system mantra is all about ?

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                          • #43
                            Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                            ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                            This is a strong plus to Oracle... An OS is irrelevant. A DBMS and application development tools that can support any OS or hardware platform is superior. Is this not the open system mantra is all about ? And that's also why the Open Source mantra is basically offbase. The only people who need open source are people who sell software, not people who use it. People who use software need the best of breed, and as I've said over and over again, SQL sucks for best of breed business logic. Yes, you CAN write applications in SQL, but it's a heck of a lot easier using good old ISAM access. CHAIN beats SELECT in at least half of the typical uses in a business application, often by a wide margin. And that's where OS/400 beats the crap out of any other environment. You can seamlessly integrate SQL and ISAM access, using the strengths of each where appropriate. This is what I don't understand - some people will wail and gnash their teeth about being locked into hardware, yet they'll meekly submit to lowest common denominator software tools in the name of "open source" or "platform independence". What's the benefiot of independence if you can't use RPG, the most powerful business language on the planet? Now, SQLFORMS may be a wonderful 4GL, but like any 4GL, after you've created your screens you still have the real work to perform, which is the business logic. With SQLFORMS you have generic SQL or PL/SQL. Generic SQL is all but useless for any sort of database-driven logic, while PL/SQL is entirely Oracle-specific, further locking you into their model. And it's not a particularly pretty extension, either. And in either case, as far as I can tell the debugging is pretty rudimentary. Do NOT discount the incredible power of the IBM debugging model. A significant part of overall development productivity is determined by the debugging process, and OS/400's debugging is superior to just about anything out there. Joe

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                            • #44
                              Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                              ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                              " What's the benefiot of independence if you can't use RPG, the most powerful business language on the planet?" Why would I ride a FORD PINTO over a FORD MUSTANG ? The emergence of SQL and 4GL is the best thing that ever happened to the IT industry. This is a by-product of a technological evolution. This is progress, to impede it, we might as well resurrect the venerable S-360 where ISAM and 3GL is the KING. The war of relational vs. hierarchical DBMS is over. ISAM is not even a DBMS it's only an access method tigthly wired to the OS and the hardware. Business requirements is not by choice, but dictated by the prevailing circumstances, of which IT plays a major role. Sometimes we blame ourselves as victims of our own making we called "Productivity" by using high-technology. People would like to slice and dice data even in the road with their PDAs like the IBM commercials, I call it HUMBUG.... But our pure cute RPG program will not allow us to do this trick.

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                              • #45
                                Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users

                                ** This thread discusses the article: Oracle Courts PeopleSoft's iSeries Users **
                                  [*]Oracle is in debt up to its eyeballs[*]The JDE product really doesn't fit in with why Oracle went after Peoplesoft.[*]The JDE product is a positive asset that as a sale can generate income.[*]Selling off bits of an acquired company is a common practice.[*]JDE customers are not about to switch to Oracle Financials.[*]Oracle shareholders will approve such a sale.[*]Watch wait and see.[/list]Dave

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