Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

    (can't remember his name, but he later became CFO or something) Jim F., wasn't it? rd

  • #2
    IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

    Thanks, Bob. I always find it interesting when I try to make a simple point and it doesn't get through. This wasn't even a BAD point, just a sort of "oh yeah" issue: watch out for the hidden costs of free software. But of course I get pounded. But I'm used to it. In a way, it's sort of a microcosm to today's social mores, and why there are no moderates left in politics today. If you're far left or far right, you at least have your pack to run with; if you're in the middle, you get lambasted by both sides. Joe

    Comment


    • #3
      IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

      Yes, that was way back in the Larry Ford days. As a smiling suit in Client Services I would fly out to sites like a bicycle repairman to insert tapes in their proper slots. Also, as part of the customization corps, I was part of the neverending battle against the Sales Department's vaporware claims. They would tell Popsicola Corp that the BPCS Doodlewaddle program was the best at Franzlewaggling their slipslops. We would prepare the alternative BS presentation to the Popsicola representatives showing them that... Indeed, with the properly extended application of their money and my time - all their slipslops would be singularly Franzlewaggled through BPCS! Of course, the Doodlewangle program would turn out to be one of the AS/HAT 4GL montrosities that had reached the 254 subroutine limit of RPG and would require several rolls of Duct tape and a liter of WD40 to just recompile. Those were the Days!

      Comment


      • #4
        IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

        Those were the Days! Oh boy, were they, Bob. The AS/HAT monstronsities created for Order Entry (SOM) took so long to generate RPG code that the jobs were stacked on a very large AS/400 like flights over O'Hare. So the programmers became adept at changing the RPG CASE tool output and recompiling the RPG, for some reason the RPG compiler didn't have any speed problems, go figure, until lo and behold, they couldn't even get the monstrosity into SEU after it hit 32,000 lines. So the programmers, being both innovative and desperate, made the tweaks to the RPG source code with DBU before recompiling. Eventually, the AS/SET code generation job would finish, already seriously out of date, and a new one would begin. Oh yeah, those were the days. rd

        Comment


        • #5
          IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

          ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
          This is a discussion about IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose.

          Click here for the article.

          Comment


          • #6
            IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

            ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
            Good article. I, too, am suffering similar problems/frustrations. There *may*, however, be a solution. Sometimes there are also open source integration projects. My own experience is with IPCop an open source firewall/gateway/router. This has Snort, Squid, etc. integrated and is all open source & free. For me, this was an easy way into open source - it was simple to set up, even for a complete Linux newbie, as I was then. Great, just what I wanted, and it was one of those things that just worked (what else could you want?). As I've learnt more, and my requirements have expanded, it has become more difficult, as per your article. Not impossible, just difficult, and *very* time-consuming. BTW I liked the historical references as well.

            Comment


            • #7
              IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

              ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
              "In her mind, it's not about acquiring enough possessions or amassing wealth, but just the opposite: Freedom is being totally, completely unencumbered by anything material—a very '60s beat concept." How interesting. I've always had a very different interpretation of this song. To me, the song was talking about how people (and I've always assumed that the song was speaking to young people) were seeking freedom in their relationships and couldn't have it. In other words, love and companionship requires attachments and commitments. So the song isn't about materialism at all, it's about the web of love. Specifically, the lyric "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose" means that you can be free, but then you have nothing (except freedom). And when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. I would also point out that the song speaks of losing Bobby McGee, and wanting him back. That was a key support for my interpretation. I feel that Janis is saying now she has freedom, but she doesn't have Bobby.

              Comment


              • #8
                IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                Joe wrote: "The Indian state of Kerala has officially chosen to use "free software" instead of Microsoft in their schools, but how free is it really?" Interesting. You start out by talking about a choice made by a particular state, and then in your article, Kerala isn't mentioned again! You spent all this time figuring out how to integrate a couple of disparate products and complain? Some would consider it a testament to the power of "free" software that you were able to do the integration at all! One important aspect of "free" in "free software" is that you have the freedom to integrate the software with whatever other software you want. Sometimes, you can get the support from others who've done the same thing. Other times, you have to figure it out for yourself. How easy would it have been if these various components were different proprietary, closed-source products? Would you have even been allowed to do what you wanted in that case? Anyways, regarding the students of Kerala, most certainly they won't have to go through what you went through. Probably, a standard installation will be distruted to the schools, and the students will be able to access word-processing, internet, and other learning apps from these workstations. And the state will be able to offer these capabilities to the schools at a much lower overall cost. Which leads me to wonder what point you're really trying to make with this article. Cheers! Hans

                Comment


                • #9
                  IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                  ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                  Based on the article's description of editing DLLs, I'd say Joe tried to install all this stuff on a Windows platform from bianries and not source. My experience with open source suggests that it works better in it's native environment (Linux) than in the Windows environment especially when you're dealing with someone else's binaries and not the source code. Joe, try duplicating the installation on a Linux box and see if your results are the same.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                    ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                    My take, for Janis, did she even know what she meant? For my take on the article and what freedom means: with freedom comes responsibility. Open source = tremendous responsibility for things you can't even imagine unless you become intimate with every line of code in every object that you try to integrate. And choices to make when something new is added to one part and then requires who knows what hoop jumping to accomodate. On the other hand, with purchased software comes a responsiblity on the part of the seller to take care of that integration, of course with increased cost, but still no responsibility on the part of the assembler of third party software packages guaranteed to be compatible with whatever. Then there is personal freedom and the required tremendous responsiblity to exercise it to the fullest... Thread where you feel the most comfortable... I tried one of these freedom exercises, until management pulled the plug. I am gearing up for another one. I love being free.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                      ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                      Freedom has a cost---ALWAYS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                        ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                        First off, neither one of us knows what Kris Kristofferson was thinking when he wrote the song. If, however, you delve a little bit into Janis' personal life, you'd know that she was about as free in her personal relationships as you can get. I doubt seriously she EVER was pinin' over any man. But your take on the song is just as valid as mine. In any case, whether my interpretation of the song is right or wrong, it doesn't matter to the article. The point of the article is the nothing is free, and that with free software you sometimes get exactly what you pay for. Joe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                          ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                          Joe, Thanks for the article. I've been delving into this world and have been having fun. Everything has a price. You either spend money upfront to save time later or you spend more time upfront to get the open source working to save the money. What's important is the value of time and money to the processors. I don't know why. Also, HP computers sindividual or the organization. That value is sometimes made for you by default. I'm working on a project for a small company with little money to spend. I've been using LAMP to put together their systems. Why? Because it's "free". There's no upfront money to spend. But, I'm spending time on the back end to make everything work together. The most difficult part of the project was to get Linux and Apache to work together. I had downloaded a Linux distro that required a specific Apache distro. The Apache distro was was cumbersome and required some C mods. It's going pretty well and I've learned a lot about the real cost of "freedom". I have many more gray hairs and sleepless nights under my belt getting this project finished. OpenOffice 2.0 has been a really good experience. It's the open source office suite by Sun. It's easy to use and works great! Hans has a really good point about at least being able to integrate disparate pieces together no matter the difficulty. I think that's what has me interested in the GNU and open source environments. That's the real meaning of free in this case. As an aside, I'd like to bring up the licensing requirements of GNU and open source. There's confusion (at least for me) regarding the difference between open source software and software based on the GNU license agreement. Free doesn't necesasrily mean no cost. For GNU, free means the freedom to do whatever you want with the software regardless of whether you paid money for it. This link explains their philosophy: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html The open source movement has similarities with GNU in its license agreement but there are differences. This link explains their philosophy: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ Tom. PS: I doubt that Janice Joplin was anti-materialism. She spent money freely and dressed herself in expensive clothes and jewelry. And, her Porsche was decked out in 60's-style psychedelic images.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                            ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                            "Disparate"? These things are all supposed to work together seamlessly. Trac is a standard web-based Python application, and all I tried to do was run it on Apache, the industry standard web server. If that lowest common denominator doesn't work together, then Python is WAY not ready for prime time. The only way Open Source is really free is if you can just pull stuff of the net and plug it together and it works seamlessly. But it didn't. It failed miserably. Certain pieces needed one version of something, other pieces needed other versions. Backwards compatibility is ignored, and integration testing is non-existent. Everything works great standalone and fails when you actually try to use it in production. If I had a 20-year-old RPG program that was written for a System/38 I could run it on the same box as an RPG ILE prograsm written yesterday, and they could share files and data areas and libraries. That's what you pay for with an integrated system that is designed for running production applications. The latest versions of Python and Apache don't work together, and according to the developers may not anytime soon. That's a simple fact, and is endemic of the Open Source world where there is no possibility of system integration. The price of Open Source? The price of your time as the integrator. THAT'S what I'm saying. Joe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

                              ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: Freedom's Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose **
                              Why is it a poor choice to try to run the Windows binaries of Open Source products on a Windows machine? Does Open Source for Windows suck? Given the percentage of Windows machines vs. Linux machines, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Open Source. Are you saying that in order to run Open Source stuff I now have to learn Linux? I have to set up a separate machine (or do a dual boot, or install VMWare)? And exactly how much time and money will that take? And to run Open Source on the desktop, I just have to replace all my Windows desktops. And I'm not defending Windows, by any stretch. But the truth is there are more shops with Windows servers than Linux servers, and FAR more with Windows desktops. Not only that, but adding a Linux skill set to a shop that doesn't have it is a non-zero cost item that you have to add to your "free" Open Source option. And in the end, that's all I'm saying. Open Source doesn't necessarily mean free! Joe

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X