We have hundreds of CGI programs in production that seem to work just fine. I'd like to know what, in the real world, what I'm not doing that I could have done in Java.That sounds like a lot of programs. Are you generating a separate program for each "page" of each application? Even so, that still sounds like a lot of programs. Would it be accurate to say that you're generating new programs based on models, thus adapting the same models to different subjects [i.e. different database tables]? If you generate one program per page, I might suggest that you could reduce the size and resource requirements of your applications by following a consolidated design pattern. Similarly, if many of your programs are based on models [templates], how adaptable are the models? The following screen shots may be helpful: http://www.relational-data.com/ascen...hdr_lines.html The illustration may simply show that it's possible to offer features to users that may not be supported in your models. The number of rows in an SQL result set. The number of pages. An option to change the number of rows displayed [for larger resolution monitors]. More ways to filter records. An option to download an SQL result set to an XML or other formatted text stream. An option to position to a row based on a key value, where the "position to" prompt adapts to the SQL order by clause. Ability to select multiple rows in a result set for view, change, delete, copy, and other actions. Tabbed pages. Popup panels. Just some ideas. Nathan.
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
This is a great article. For years IBM characterized the iSeries as another commodity for deploying Java applications. It appears that strategy simply lead to more migration of more applications to Windows and Linux servers. Joe has clarified and amplified the changes at IBM, which emphasize iSeries distinctiveness, and will definitely expand the iSeries user base. Several years ago I read whitepapers from Sun and IBM which characterized CGI as a poorer performing, less scalable architecture than Servlets. Perhaps naively, I believe it, even though no benchmarks were offered to support the claims. Since then, I've run a number of benchmarks that refute it. iSeries CGI uses fewer CPU cycles, and offers better scalability. The most accurate way to measure performance and scalability is through a client-based stress test tool. Raw throughput is one measurement, but perhaps even more significant is that when a server is hit with multiple simultaneous requests, there shouldn't be wide variations in response times between the first hit and the last hit. For both measurements, iSeries CGI performs and scales significantly better than Servlets, except in tests involving NO database access, and trivial page sizes. That's not to say that iSeries CGI doesn't have other problems. If a CGI job is already engaged handling a request, when a new request arrives, the requested program will be launched in a separate job, eventually leading to a state where every program is active in every job. It's kind of like a built-in memory leak. An error in a CGI program will eventually destabilize the HTTP Server by tying up all CGI support jobs. The only way to release and reset resources is to periodically shut down and restart the HTTP server. Actually, distinctions between CGI and Servlets seem to be less and less relevant as time passes. The great message of the iSeries, is that both interfaces are supported, and each will be suitable for different types of programmers, and framework and tool developers. Nathan.
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
Now, all this having been said about JSP vs. CGI, the end result is still the lowly web page which we have so many advocates for, leaving our AS/400/iseries/i5 at the low end of all computer interfaces. Nowhere else do people work with web pages as the apparent primary workspace. Nor do we ourselves do any fundamental work in them. Yet we somehow delude ourselves into believing IBM and their Websphere web page server is an interface people will buy the i5 for. That is until it is so late no one will even care what we think, if that hasn't already happened. Instead, with one move, the interface for the i5 could be the most advanced interface of all computers and, in domino fashion, OS/400 recognized as the only object based OS in the world behind this most advanced interface, and DB2/400 and record level I/O understood to be behind the business transaction processing greatness of many of the most successful corporations in the world. If IBM put something like this on the i5 as our standard interface, with an EXFMT tie in to generate basic screen components by default, I wouldn't even mind if they required Websphere to do it. Just do it before it's midnight. http://www.canoo.com/ulc/ rd
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
your first post took. It's still there. rd
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
I am currently researching scaleability of SQL Server Farms against an i-Series. Can you point me to some sources of 'mountains of evidence'? Thank you
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
Microsoft has demonstrated enterprise level transaction throughput, and they keep releasing new versions, so Microsoft has left any such mountains in the dust. On the other hand, I have worked with several large corporations running their business on the AS/400 with DB2/400 and RPG. One stock transaction file contained over a billion records. OS/400 is the kind of computing architecture that could handle the government's largest failures at the FBI and IRS, but OS/400 with RPG is Cinderella and Websphere with SQL is the ugly step-sister. If only IBM knew where the glass slipper fits. rd
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
I am currently researching scaleability of SQL Server Farms against an i-Series. Can you point me to some sources of 'mountains of evidence'? Thank you
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Guest repliedThe iSeries: The Once and Future King
Very catchy title. I enjoyed the article from an entertainment standpoint, and it's always refreshing to read a passionate article about the iSeries. On the other hand, your article is also filled with some somewhat misleading statements that alienate people that use the left side of their brain as much as their right. If the point of your article was to galvanize RPG developers then I say mission accomplished. I guess I like to think people are smart enough to get some facts along with the vitriol, that's all. I am glad you managed to use the disclaimer that one size fits all is wrong. I like to think the iSeries is living proof of that. Is it true that some vendors have bet their business on migrating from RPG to Java? Maybe, although there's none that I'm aware of. Does IBM's announcement significantly change their business model? Not really. Has IBM 'kicked the migration tools out of the temple' as you suggest? No. Do you really think any sane person feels that 'Java is the answer to everything'? Kind of like saying RPG is the answer to everything, isn't it? I frankly don't understand why you attack the notion of platform independence. It's like attacking color TV. It's kind of already happended and is the main factor driving commoditization in the IT world. I'm not saying you have to like it- I'm just pointing out that it's a fact of life. So I will agree with your point about sowing dissent for political gain- we're all engaged in that to some degree if we have product-driven interests in this market place. Perhaps that explains your interest in discussing the benefits of using JSP, for example. You know, I see your name in the press quite a bit and read your commentary about other product approaches, yet I have never seen or heard from a single site that owns a product of yours in over 15 years of doing this. Normally I wouldn't engage in this kind of thing, but demonizing other technologies while pumping your own philosophy doesn't strike me as being very PC either. Chris Wilson
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
I believe I also apologized for my inaccuracy regarding the model 270 running WebSphere - although I stand by my point that WebSphere Express is a far cry from WebSphere full blown - which you never addressed. I would say that it doesn't need to be addressed. If you have an application where both WebSphere and CGI are considered viable implementation options, then the lack of an EJB Container in WebSphere Express wouldn't be an issue. Of course, in version 6, the difference between WAS Express and WAS Base is licensing costs/constraints, so the discussion will become moot as more shops lean towards that version.
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
Ah, but if you had been listening that seems to scale just fine, blowing a hole in your scaling theory. Scaling fine does not mean it scales as well. Just about any technology applied properly should be scaleable. The important question is: "What scales better for my particular need?" WebSphere scales better at the high end than CGI. CGI scales better at the low-end (but this could be counteracted by running Tomcat as the servlet container). At the same time, there is also the issue of programmer productivity (both up-front development and maintenance). If you have a well-performing code generator (such as WebSmart) or runtime application generator, you're going to run rings around any hand-coded solution. This applies regardless of the underlying technology.
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
So, one of your primary resellers also sells a WebSphere Express product, and you're on here slamming WebSphere Express. You're a hell of a partner, I must say. Joe
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
No, Duncan, you said: "I also doubt that any enterprise would be willing to run their mission-critical businesses on WebSphere Express- but that's possibly just my ignorance." Now you're saying it doesn't scale well. What do you mean by that? What sort of facts do you have that say WebSphere Express doesn't scale well? Also, the person who said it doesn't force their users to use WebSphere Express or even run their product on the iSeries (an advantage of JSP Model II), yet still most do. So any attempts at painting this as tainted testimony are ignorant of the facts. Joe
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Guest repliedThe iSeries: The Once and Future King
My conversations with "normal" end users, not ISVs of Wasx products, is that Webshpere is a novelty. Many have thought about it, many have even tried it but many of those never went any further. Maybe they use the phone book application but the serious users of Webshpere are either larger shops or ISVs. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.
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Guest repliedThe iSeries: The Once and Future King
Joe, Ask those that don't have their self interest at heart about Websphere Express. Do you think anyone basing their livelihood upon Webshpere to say otherwise? Ask the president of Coca Cola which cola he drinks. I'd be willing to bet it ain't Pepsi. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Joe Pluta"wrote in message news:6b229b3b.106@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > As it turns out, I've already gotten one response from an ISV: > > "We use it and have for a long time. I think WAS Express is a great > product and with 6.0 it just gets better. > > We also sell an iSeries Helpdesk product called ExpressDesk that is > largely built on WAS Express. We do not force our customers to run it on > WAS Express or on iSeries, but the vast majority do so." > > They go on to say: > > "To say WAS Express is not production-ready is libelous." > > My sentiments exactly. > > Joe
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The iSeries: The Once and Future King
Joe, Do you know who that vendor is? They happen to be one of the biggest overseas distributors of WebSmart ! Go figure! Duncan
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