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  • The New RPG Developer

    I thought about a little more. I want a roadmap. I want all of the service stations listed, I want all of the exits listed, I want all of the attractions listed, I want to know all of the exits that have little stops from hell listed, so I can avoid them at all costs... What about a column that could double for a book later. Broken into chapters starting from the beginning. 1) What is the current state of RPG and where should I be. 2) Convert your source to RPG IV and free form and remove all of those (MOVE)'s. 3) What is ILE? What is an Activation Group? 4) What is a Service Program? What is a Function? a Procedure? a Sub Procedure? and Why do I want any? 5) Binding Directories and why do I want any? What will they save me? 5) Okay now we have RGPIV, free form, ILE, Service Programs, Procedures, where do we go from here? 6) Extracting your Business Rules to Procedures, or the JOY of write once, use many times, and don't recompile. 7) Okay, now we have to convert all of your code because we are starting to experience cases of mixed Default and Non Default Activation Groups, the Joy of existing Triggers and Activation Groups and Scoping, so we now need to understand Scoping and their use in Activation Groups. 8) Are we ready to now Develop an Application in a true ILE Environment? 9) Are we ready to use API's. 10) Let's have a cup of Java. 11) Let's talk to Joe about why we should have been using WDSc all along. I think it would make a good series, and a good book. A year ago I might have written it myself. Just some thoughts, Craig

  • #2
    The New RPG Developer

    Okay, this is getting dangerous, I thought a little more. Take that book and base it on a small ERP home grown application that we create in modules. Partner up with either IBM or a an existing AS/400 timeshare that will allow all the bells and whistles, and make this a FREE tutorial course, and yea, go one step further and let's create an open source library of Service Programs and Procedures that 'NEW' and existing RPG programmers can use in their everyday work day. And let's only then after we get this modest baseline use of RPG in todays world, or where it should be.... Let's then get 'Creative'. But, it would interfere with life after 5 o'clock, and could be contagious, and could invigorate the RPG community, and could increase your net worth...for who: MC Press, any Developer that gives up a few soccer games, any employer whose Developers play in this sandbox, any Soccer Mom or Dad who has to go to the soccer games without Daddy or Mommy (you never know today). And what about NEW BLOOD, it could happen if you think and act positive, don't try and you will never know. Is it worth it? It has been for me. But, then as Joe does with interweaving song lines in his 'Weaving Websphere', 'I may be crazy', or 'Don't shoot me, I'm only the Piano Man'...you can learn to play too. Craig

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    • #3
      The New RPG Developer

      Yes, I agree. I'm thinking along those lines also but you have to start small with shell programs that integrate into a larger system. A small ERP is a goal but too much to start with. I would think you'd even want to keep the app artificially simple to have some logic to display infrastructure methodologies but not be a distraction. The key is a flexible infrastructure in place. Adding business logic would just be more of the same. rd

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      • #4
        The New RPG Developer

        Tom, I apologize for cluttering up this thread with a discussion about PHP. I read the by-line "Beyond the RPG blog" and assumed you were fishing for ideas beyond RPG. It appears that you were looking for RPG ideas beyond the "blog". Please feel free to transplant the PHP discussion somewhere else, I would be happy to cease and desist until then. btw: Still a HUGE RPG fan, too. Can't we all just get along... Regards, Mike

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        • #5
          The New RPG Developer

          While I consider myself primarily an RPG Developer, RPG is is not all that I do. Don't most of us code some CL? DDS? SQL? A great many of us (myself included) also code some Java (Yes Joe - really!), some PHP, and even a little COBOL from time to time. My point is that perhaps one shouldn't take too narrow a view of what an "RPG Developer" is. Isn't it as important to explore avenues that can fill in the gaps in RPG (yes there are some) as well as discussing tools and techniques to extend one's RPG skills? One other point. The "RPG Developer" of today (or at least those interested in reading about anything they couldn't do on a System/36!) is doing very different things with very different tools today than just a few years ago. Shouldn't an RPG Developer newsletter explore potential future avenues? Jon P.

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          • #6
            The New RPG Developer

            Jon, Are you proposing that the newsletter be renamed to "i5 Developer"? I would not restrict the letter to just RPG, but that sure would be the focus since RPG is in the *name* of the newsletter. Chris

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            • #7
              The New RPG Developer

              Mike, Absolutely no need to apologize. I asked the question because I want to know! Yes, PHP is big, and many of us are really interested in how that's going to be incorporated in the application toolkit. But there are some developers who just want to get better at what they know. RPG is one language, and RPG Developer will cover that. But ... Well, there's a lot happening on the System i, and it's important to bring in a base of understanding by which more and more potential readers can consider RPG. What do I mean? Let's see if I can explain myself. Let's say for argument's sake, you're fresh out of college and you know some Java and PHP, but -- because they don't teach RPG much anymore (or should I say, "Not Yet!") -- you've never been exposed. (People in Rochester used to call these uninitiated "The Unwashed") Yet you find your first real job and it's in a manufacturing organization that runs a System i. Your task, as a new kid in town, is to start learning RPG and get exposure to the language by maintaining code. "No problem!" you say to yourself. "I know Java! I know PHP! I even know C#! This should be a snap!" But then, after about two weeks, you start hating RPG! Why? Not because it's simple, and not because it's "old"! You hate RPG because you have no conceptual framework by which you can understand the language, its integration with other System i services, the open memory model, etc. All your previous educational experiences in languages are from a completely realm. And it's driving you nuts! So you go to your IT manager and you say "Hey! You know I could do this a LOT faster in PHP or Java!" And that wise old sage of an IT manager eyes you up and down and says "Well, YOU could do it faster in PHP or Java, but Tom we don't have those languages here. So go and sit over next to Mike there, and learn how he thinks about RPG." Now Mike is a really smart developer. He's had a lot of experience in a lot of different languages, but he LOVES RPG because he understands it. So, he acts as a mentor to you, putting concepts into something you can understand. Concepts that relate to Java and PHP, and which describe RPG in a syntax that you can understand. And sure enough, in about two months, you start to understand Mike (because he speaks your "language") and you start to think "Hey! Maybe this RPG thing isn't what I thought." My point is, to attract new blood to the RPG language, the writers of this newsletter have to be able to speak in a syntax that newbies can understand, not just what we "experts" understand. So your comments are not out of line, but they do, in fact, open a window to a strategy: The RPG Developer newsletter can learn to attract new readers by talking about RPG in different ways, to attract a different breed of developer who needs to learn RPG. That might be a PHP programmer, or a Java programmer, or even a COBOL programmer. My educational background in languages was originally in Fortan and COBOL (Yes, I'm that old!) and my first experiences in RPG were rotten. Fortunately, I had a really good mentor (named Dave Bailey) who got me started and up over the first hurdles. And then the good old System/34 -- which was so easy to write code for -- helped me transition. Of course, the System i and ILE is not that easy for a newbie today. And old guys like me are not going to be around to help them transition to the language much longer. Yet you know that many MANY companies find that RPG is exactly what they want and need to run their businesses. They will not be forced to change platforms because they can't find new RPG programmers. They'll train them in house if they have to. So part of our task as editors is to educate those new users -- as well as challenge the rest of us. Not only to provide the RPG Developer with the best RPG articles, but to also provide a wider context and syntax to help others gain access to this great resource to BECOME RPG Developers. Tom

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              • #8
                The New RPG Developer

                Chris, We already try to cover lots of different language topics in a specific newsletter called iApplication Developer. Don't know if you're a subscriber, but if not, check it out. Tom

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                • #9
                  The New RPG Developer

                  Tom, Thanks. I already read that newsletter too. I think my point was missed. If RPG is in the *title* of the newsletter, I would expect it to be centered around RPG, not PHP or Java or any other language. Other languages could certainly be on the "fringes". I do like the idea of discussing RPG in terms of other languages too, so non-RPG people can relate to it. I do this as well. For example, instantiating an object in Java is a foreign concept to RPG'ers. But if you explain that the class is like an empty physical file and you have to "instantiate" a record in it before you can read a record, then instantiation makes more sense. Chris

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                  • #10
                    The New RPG Developer

                    ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                    ** This thread discusses the Content article: The New RPG Developer0

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                    • #11
                      The New RPG Developer

                      ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                      While I am sorry to see Bob Cozzi go, I will continue to keep in touch with this newsletter and I believe it will continue to be just as useful to me.

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                      • #12
                        The New RPG Developer

                        ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                        Thomas, Let's see. A fresh coat of paint, new carpeting, a few upgraded pieces of furniture (no, I'm not talking about the writers) and we have a nice, comfortable "living" space where ideas and techniques can be shared. That kind of sounds like a favorite coffee shop of mine. I meet with friends who are in I.T. a couple of times a month at the coffee shop and we swap stories, tips, and some good java (the real kind, not the language). I look forward to the changes and to continue learning from this forum. Bob is a fine writer and I learned a lot from him. But, it would be a good thing to get some fresh faces with different perspectives in the coffee shop that is RPG Developer. Sorry about that. That's way too smarmy. Tom

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                        • #13
                          The New RPG Developer

                          ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                          Though I have seen many of my ideas and doubts discussed by Bob Cozzi (not because I posted them by the way), it is true that I would like him to go further and with examples. I think this is the time to get involved and post ideas/doubts (they are always mixed with me). What I would like to know is if there is a specific place to go, when and how. Thank you.

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                          • #14
                            The New RPG Developer

                            ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                            Boy, what a mouthful. On the one hand there are the firm and steadfast supporters of anything RPG who refuse to move into the modern world of Java development. From my own experience and observation, this group is comprised largely of the type who has an eye on retirement. The message I get from this group is "Why take the time to invest in something new when my future is comprised of grand-kids and Travel Trailers and the lake-front property I've invested in over the years?" I know I'm not the only one to has seen this. Their foot is already out the door. They’re not even interested in learning ILE. “ILE? It offers no benefit unless you re-architect the whole application. Even then, there is no real benefit unless you are a multi-language shop.” And please don’t chide me on this point; I’m just reflecting upon direct experience. On the other hand there is the group represented by new blood. Again, from my observation and experience, there are too few of these coming out of our domestic colleges. Mostly, they come from off-shore and mostly, they see the iSeries as a legacy machine and their eye is really gazing upon all things Java which inevitably leads them away from RPG/iSeries. That leaves the IBM dependant language of RPG still hurting for new blood. The third element here is IBM itself. In my opinion, renaming the machine so many times in such a short timeframe only serves to obfuscate the product line and confuse the market place. This stymies new blood just a bit further and so the core supporters of the machine are what remain…. and they continue to get older. (I’m over 50 myself) The only way I could move into the modern world of Java development was to get out of the culture that uses IBM hardware. The view-point of management is basically the same; “Why change? Give me a good business reason why I should rewrite RPG applications using Java and WebSphere?” So management, in their wisdom and guided by consultant-driven initiatives, buys proprietary screen scraper technologies and claims the applications to have been modernized. Good job, guys. Now, try and hire someone who wants to work with that without paying a premium in the process. So, as I see it, the problem is multi-faceted. I have no easy answer; only observation. I feel IBM could do a better job by promoting a clearer avenue toward modernization instead of inventing a new dialect of RPG every few years. The RPG community, if they really wanted to, could do a better job at modernizing their skill-sets within a sea of increasing choice. Finally, management could do a better job by obtaining a clear vision (I prefer one toward being platform agnostic) about how to evolve the RPG-based applications into a browser-based world.

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                            • #15
                              The New RPG Developer

                              ** This thread discusses the article: The New RPG Developer **
                              You're welcome to post your ideas, thoughts, and concerns right here in this forum. Alternatively, you can email editor in chief Thomas M. Stockwell at tstockwell@mcpressonline.com or executive editor Victoria Mack at vmack@mcpressonline.com. We look forward to hearing from you! Victoria

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