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IMHO: License Irrationality

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  • IMHO: License Irrationality

    ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
    ** This thread discusses the Content article: IMHO: License Irrationality0

  • #2
    IMHO: License Irrationality

    ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
    Joe is right! My company has moved away from the AS/400 to pSeries Client Server apps and it has been (and continues to be a nightmare)!! The level of reliability of these convoluted environments is atrocious!

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    • #3
      IMHO: License Irrationality

      ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
      I was ready to start learning EGL. It looked promising. But if it's going be a separately priced option, it's not worth my time. I know I'll never get an extra expense past management. (I've tried for other things that I'm convinced would pay for themselves in both productivity and saving of actual expenses, but no go.) Management won't spend anything on a platform they don't understand and don't see the future in. They can, "do it all and more for sooooo much less $$$ on M$."

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      • #4
        IMHO: License Irrationality

        ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
        I am not in the USA and maybe my experience would add a new perspective to the discussion. Your point of giving the tool 'free' is a wise one given the competition from platforms like Windows, where everything looks great, even though they don't work so great. On the other hand, it is true, the [AS/400][iSeries][System i] is a wonderful platform, but it seems the academy is 'against us'. All those study plans include MS certifications, Sun certifications, but I cannot find an IBM iSeries certification program in universities (a choice I could find when it was still know as the AS/400). Today's students are the choice makers of tomorrow (a not so far tomorrow), guess what platform are they going to choose when the moment comes to make a decision? System i does not only need to add those fancy and powerful extras, but also needs them to be included where the new generations are: universities. I hope I did not turn the discussion the wrong way.

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        • #5
          IMHO: License Irrationality

          ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
          It's a good comment, but the "decisionmakers of tomorrow" stuff I see said all the time. That tomorrow would be far off. Other stuff I have read about being worried about what kids think of your computer system is just amazing. I went into this field because of jobs, and so will others, if there are jobs. It's not a chicken and egg thing. The jobs have to be there first, then the programmers will be there. rd

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          • #6
            IMHO: License Irrationality

            ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
            The i in System i stands for integrated which, for alot of us in the midrange community, means we can answer with "sure we can do that; it's already in there" when questioned about adding new functionality to our environments. This integration is also what allows us to fend off the encroachment of competing systems and maintain the elegant simplicity of our "one box does it all" approach (i.e., we were consolidated before consolidation was cool). Joe, I've corresponded with you in the past about my enthusiasm for EGL and how I envisioned using it as my "SDA for the WEB" but last week, after reading of IBM's intentions to make it a separate, chargeable item, I had to put it back on the shelf. I'll wait for version 7 to see if it includes the requirements for seemless integration with an RPG backend you've written about in your articles on EGL and to see if IBM does in fact start separatly licensing EGL without including a limited number of seats with the license for WDSC. Otherwise, it's back to CGIDEV2. Kind regards, Brian

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            • #7
              IMHO: License Irrationality

              ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
              You typically see product bundling in markets that are dominated by one company. It's used as a means of locking out competition. Take the case of Microsoft embedding Internet Explorer in the operating system in order to drive Netscape off the desktop. It seems to work when you have a monopoly, but the System i is a case where the platform has steadily lost market share this past decade. Hence you have people like Timothy Prickett Morgan of ITJUNGLE calling for IBM to end it's practice of bundling, and reduce the price of the server to be more competitive. Most customers I think, would prefer the option of buying components individually, so long as the cost of the server came down. And ISV's who are riding on the coat tails of IBM would benefit too, if the new pricing structure made the platform more competitive over all. In my case, I can live without much of the software that IBM bundles with the platform. I'd be better off with a lower server price. But, to each their own. Nathan.

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              • #8
                IMHO: License Irrationality

                ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
                Nathan, I have to disagree with you. There's no way you could live with the iSeries as an unbundled machine. Please, think it through. You'd have to unbundle first the database, then the HTTP server. Say goodbye integrated machine, hello hig cost licenses. Next would come work management: byebye spooled files and batch support. Worse, you'd have to go back to the bad old days of buying each compiler individually. The development tools would each be separate. You couldn't write a software package to be modified by an end user because you'd have to be sure they had the right compilers. Sure, it would be lower cost, but low cost isn't always a good thing. What do you want to be "competitive" with? A cobbled-together developmetn environment a la Unix? No thank you, I'm quite happy with things the way they are. Joe

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                • #9
                  IMHO: License Irrationality

                  ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
                  That's the point IBM is missing. By making sure you include all the tools on the entry-level system, then you can ensure that people stay on the system for advanced technologies. If you don't, if you listen to the "pundits" and strip the box down to its bare bones, then you don't have any competitive advantage: you'll never be as cheap as a Wintel box, and yet you won't have any distinguishing characteristics. Think carefully, IBM. You just sold Lenovo... why? Because you're NOT a commodity player. Please don't turn the iSeries into a commodity. Joe

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                  • #10
                    IMHO: License Irrationality

                    ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
                    Maybe IBM justs needs to supply a chart showing the System i unbundled. Listing each entry with an associated price/liscensing fee. The bundled server would all of a sudden look like a very attractive machine.

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                    • #11
                      IMHO: License Irrationality

                      ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
                      The only problem I have with the above scenario, is that such a chart (simplified) should have been produced on a massive scale fifteen years ago. The horse may have already left the barn on this one. Dave

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                      • #12
                        IMHO: License Irrationality

                        ** This thread discusses the article: IMHO: License Irrationality **
                        This approach would certainly lead to management going through the list and asking which of these do we 'really' need? Let's face it, management, in most cases, are nothing more than marketing driven consumers. If they see a cool ad for MS during the super bowl you can count on the questions on Monday morning. If they see a price list for a bunch of stuff they don't recognize, they will assume they don't need it.

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