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IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

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  • IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

    I agree with much of what John says in this article. Both IBM and the iSeries programming community have become lethargic and complacent. In the meantime, Microsoft's juggernaut has continued rolling along, introducing one innovation after another and gaining market share. We in the iSeries world are now minority players in the development world. I am a long time professional in the midrange arena and I have been repeatedly disheartened by IBM's failures to make the iSeries a true developer platform and to promote it. John's comments about Websphere also ring true. One would believe that Websphere is being widely accepted and utilized in the iSeries world if one only listened to the hype in the journals and the froth coming from Common and the other conferences. At the last iSeries Devcon and Common conferences I attended within the past year, I only encountered a few people out of all the attendees who were using Websphere instead of the old PDM environment. The Java usage was somewhat better. The issue of SQL is also a sore spot. SQL on the iSeries is still cumbersome, although IBM's implementation of SQL is the superior one in the IT world, both from a standards compliance point of view and features. IBM could do much to remove these limitations and make the iSeries a truly dynamic environment for developers and users. It will take more than giving the platform a new name, which has served more to create confusion with the 3 name changes in a few short years. It will also require more than renaming RPG to a new language, which is the curent topic of discussion. IBM truly needs new blood in their sales force. Perhaps they should go outside the corporation to find people who still know what it means to sell a product instead of arrogantly expecting the development and user world to come to them. Mitch Lax Senior programmer/analyst Titan America LLC Norfolk VA mlax@titanamerca.com

  • #2
    IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

    I fully agree that IBM has not sold its products very well; but why should the I Series be cluttered and changed into working like a PC? If you need a PC, get a PC. If you want to write in Visual Basic or C, do so. Do not ruin the ease of operation, the security of the box, the ease of writing good business applications just to make it like very other product on the market. The actual user doing their day to day tasks, does not care if a little man pops up and makes a funny face. They need to accomplish their jobs and get information quickly and easily. That is what the RPG language does. The fluff has been over-sold and management seems to be in love with it. It does not make their employees more productive and that is where they miss the target. It is easy create a robust program and is only limited by the programmers imagination. Free-form is ok if you gain some sort of productivity. I have work to get out everyday to make the people I work with more productive. I see no point in changing something if there is no benefit. I use pop-up boxes and lookups with in the application. I can fax a document, use a word document and enter data all from the same program. I can make a change very quickly. I design my applications in a modular design which makes them easy to maintenace. This takes longer on the front end, but pays off when business needs change. I keep my business processes clean and lean. This makes them easier to modify. If a programmer writes sloppy code, it does not matter what language they use, it will still be sloppy. If a programmer is not innovative, it does not matter what language they use. We should not lose sight of the fact that our programs are used by people that must have information and information put into our systems. I do not wish IBM to make RPG just like the other languages. I want enhancements that I will gain some productivity and that will give more options to the people I work for.

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    • #3
      IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

      When IBM swiched to marketing iSeries thru their business partners, they abandoned customers and "potential customers" leaving them to deal with smalll business, sometimes involved in less than professional approaches. This shift in marketing on leaving a stellar line of IBM hardware and know-how was a critical error on IBM's part and is the reason the iSeries is lossing ground. This group is driven by $$$ to survive and has not contributed to the growth and longevity of iSeries in today's arena of fierce platform competition.

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      • #4
        IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

        I am not sure if it is okay to post a link or not. If not then you can delete it. However antecodes like this are a primary reason the platform hasn't found a new customer base and continues on with the same lathargic customer based content to run 15 year old ERP software and code using RPGIII. Sure there are some progression IT departments out there, but they are few and far between. http://www.angustheitchap.com/Angus/...s/Weasels.html

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        • #5
          IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

          Get off your "fluff-stuff" rump and take a REAL look at GUI apps - TRUE GUI apps, not that crumb called cgi-rpg. They DO IMPROVE PRODUCTIVITY - by reducing MISTAKES (humans make mistakes-even programmers) and by making the information available easier to find, read, and understand. ASK ANY 20-something hired by your company that has been forced to learn green-screen apps. And its not just because everyone has Windows on their desktops and knows something of Office apps that GUI applications are easier than green-screen to use effectively. So if other languages make it easier to develop GUI frontends and allow the backbone structure to function in RPG (IV or free, who cares!), which is the most efficient business-oriented language for use on the iSeries, then why not have IBM make those other languages available in Websphere ? Why re-invent the wheel that is already rolling-over IBMs marketshare ?

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          • #6
            IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

            I'm a 40-something from the old days and I'm not afraid of GUI, .NET, or the Web. So I say give me the tools I need to do the job in that environment. If its the reality of doing business today, then lets get to it ! Oh, and if it didn't have value (all that "fluff"), we would not be having this discussion Mr. Better SalesmanShip.

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            • #7
              IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

              Eating the dog food: At a Common conference some years ago an IBMer from Rochester was explaining why they had stopped using their main frames for development and switched to AIX. He said that "Unix was the ultimate development environment." I was sitting near someone who is a frequent contributor to this site and I heard him say rather cynically that Rochester "should have switched to the AS/400; then maybe they would make it the ultimate development environment." He was right of course. The System/i is very easy to develop green screen business applications compared to other platforms, but it hasn't lit people's fires for some time now because of its lack of a good GUI interface. I used to denigrate those opinions in the past, but not since I've seen just how much easier GUI interfaces are for the average user to get their work done. It seems to me that the lack of native GUI support really hurts this system because PC based GUI's that communicate with the System/i for data are very slow. If the System/i had an on-board GUI processor the thing would smoke. Selling the dog food: Much has been said about the comatose sales force that IBM has and the lack of commitment from most of the business partners. To me however the biggest problem is that IBM is marketing a single brand instead of marketing their platforms individually. The System/i is buried under a pile of fluff. Their marketing strategy may sell IBM, but it doesn't sell the System/i. The fact that the platform exists doesn't penetrate the brain of the average CFO, who are the ones that buy most of the computers. As we've all seen, right now the ones talking to the CFO's about which platforms to buy are the 20-30-something geeks who used Unix in college, so the CFO ends up buying IBM System/x's. Sustained marketing of each individual platform under IBM's umbrella in places that will reach those potential customers is the key. I think each platform group (especially Rochester) should be directly responsible for it's own marketing. This latest move to have the user groups do it for them doesn't seem to be gathering much steam. Back in the early 90's I supported Jon Akers (IBM CEO from 85 to 93) and his plan to split up the company. Then the AS/400 could have come out from under that pile of marketing fluff and stood on it's own with no corporate overseer worried about its overall brand.

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              • #8
                IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                I would like DeCoville to give a specific count of RPG gray hairs he's seeing and from how many places, and what rough proportion of RPG programmers they are that he's looking at. In my opinion, he completely made that up and has no basis for his statement whatsoever. He also has no idea what DB2 Universal database is. Also, VB programmers are down an astounding 25%, many have switched to Java. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about. rd

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                • #9
                  IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                  I'm also one of those guys from the old days. I make a living consulting on the system i as a consultant. It's because of guys like you I make all my money. Guys like you never learn anything, so your company hires me to do the thinks you SHOULD know. RPG is a good language, and I do love the system i, BUT in this day and age if you don't know GUI, .NET, or the Web then you will be stuck out. I don't care what language or platform, if I need it, I learn it and I use it. I believe in the best tool for the required job.

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                  • #10
                    IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                    Nothing will turn it around. First of all, IBM has essentially removed it from the market already by way of its mind-numbing stupidity with what to call it. I liken it to some new TV show that peaks your interest. You watch TV very little, but when you have a chance, you tune in on Tuesdays at 8. Some suits at the network determine that the show could garner a bigger audience if they moved it to Thursday. After a few weeks of "losing the show", you find it again. Suddenly the suits become impatient again and move the show (again) to Mondays. As a viewer, you throw in the towel and stop looking for the program---as does the rest of the audience. Then the show gets canceled. Secondly, when it comes right down to it, our “black box” (it’s difficult to rename a color) is really nothing more than another server to the new-generation computer trekkies. I really can’t disagree. Having started now to dabble in the PHP, Apache, MySQL thing (yes I finally started), from that side of things, the AS/400 appears as nothing special---it’s just another box with data on it. This begs the question, “Why would anyone pay IBM a premium for a computer to house a database when I can use MySQL for virtually nothing?” And, “Why would I want to run Apache & PHP on that same box when I can buy powerful and reliable PCs for virtually nothing?” The answer: THEY WOULDN’T. We all know our boxes are the best business machines on the planet, but who is going to listen at this stage of the game? My Gosh, how could I even begin to defend its continued presence in my company when I can’t even tell them what the name of it is?!

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                    • #11
                      IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                      I really can't believe that someone would actually compare PC reliability with the iSeries! As for why IBM doesn't get off their duff and market the machine, I have no idea. I did notice that last year when they did make an effort at marketing the "black box", sales went up dramatically. So I know that IBM can do it! They just need to continue to market "OUR" machine, like it really matters to them! That's what I would like to see more of!

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                      • #12
                        IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                        IBM does need to improve their marketing substantially. But DeCoville's comments about the database don't make sense. It's better than any other database out there: record level access and SQL access are one reason (combined) that I say that. And what's his problem with ASNA and RPG .NET? Their installed base is huge, technical support is unrivaled, and they have the best set of tools to keep current with Windows/Web interfaces to the iSeries.

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                        • #13
                          IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                          This has been debated like forever. But let's at least frame the topic to why IBM won't change it as opposed to why isn't it happening. Let's dispense with the notion that DB2 is a problem or that it's number 1 in the market. Oracle is number 1 and every other DB is a distant also ran including your beloved SQL server. Second, ASNA for whatever it's worth at 90 FTE's if that's the case is pretty darn good for a iSeries vendor. That said, just how many FTE's you think IBM's got on the "i". I'll bet it ain't much more than that. The reason is that so much of the software is shared these days and remove the shared hardware guys and how many are really FTE's on the "i"? The same reason DB2 is even used is the same reason that IBM machines are still around, they're stable, reliable, bullet-proof and painfully routine. IBM will never cede control of the machine like all other platforms do and that's the difference. First they removed the assembler compiler, then they might have well removed MI from the user base, so what incentive is left for a vendor to port or try and port a product to the "i". The C/C++ compiler is okay but to get anything really done with it you have to know the machine well and to bother to learn the machine well means you want control and access, IBM doesn't allow that. The market thrives on innovation, a vendor isn't going to be able to innovate on the "i" because it's locked down. All other platforms allow total access to the machine, IBM locks it down and they will never cede that control until it's too late. No access, no products, no innovation. The day Oracle(etc.etc.) can run on the 'i' is the day the machine will live on. The OS was never built to run multi-thread apps like all C/S languages thrive on so GUI is not going to be on the 'i' unless there's a significant OS re-write. If you don't believe me just go look at the API's and see how many really run multi-threaded.

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                          • #14
                            IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                            Hey, I hear ya, but OTOH, I don't know if I can go your way anymore. I have friend of mine who hasn't rebooted a Linux server in 9 months.

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                            • #15
                              IMHO: What Will It Take to Turn the System i Around?

                              Dear OS: I've seen iSeries run for a year without a reboot.

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