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Finally, a piece on out-sourcing that tells us how to respond. I've always put technology skills ahead of business skills and, after reading your article, I will rethink where I put my learning energies. Thanks Tom.
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Don, Good advice. I received my computer science degree from UCLA 29 years ago and made a conscience effort on my first day on the job to think of myself as a businessman first and a programmer/technology person second. I have always wanted to solve business solutions in the best and most economical way possible. I truly believe that has been the secret to my success. Fortunately, I've been in management since day 1 and had the authority to create solutions in my vision. But that vision always revolved around the end user, not the programmer. I have weekly staff meetings with my AS/400 programmers and the one thing I say almost every week is that our job is to make the end user's life easier, not the programmer's. It may make our life (as programmers) harder to do that, but so be it. Our only reason for being employed is to server others. Never take the shortcuts that cause end users to have to do work arounds. "Don Denoncourt" -
Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Great article. I guess the whining (not you Mr. Stockwell) about jobs going away needs to stop and start being responsible for one's career. Each of us needs to do whatever is necessary to take of ourselves and families. Don't count on anyone else to do it for you. Tom.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
In other words, if you don't find a place in management (or convince upper mgmt to make one for you) your place in history is, well history. For those of you who actually enjoyed coding, it was fun while it lasted, wasn't it? Heck, if you move to another country you might still get to do the work you loved (at a greatly reduced rate however). And you thought "learn Java or die" was going to end your career...............Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Tom, Your article is a good one, and to the point. However, I have one question that, unfortunately, you nor others can seem to answer. What can someone who has built their career on a specific field (i.e. IBM Midrange)(and has also functioned as a department manager, programmer, programmer/analyst, and business analyst) do who has a salary level that is higher than what the market is paying? If these jobs are going overseas, and the jobs that we are qualified for (because of "displacement") pay alot less money, and we have a family to support, and kids to put through college, and a mortgage to pay, what do we do? Get a second job to continue to support our family? Maybe I should move to India, and see what I can do there, and send my paycheck home to the USA. The solutions you offer seem to work for consultants, and single people, but they don't seem to be applicable (unless I am not understanding something here) to an IT worker who has a family to support. I am qualified for lots of jobs, but the pay is at least 20% less than what I am making now. What would you recommend I do? Take a salary cut and hope for the best, or stay at the job I am at, lose my "marketable" skills, and hope I don't get outsourced? Training? My employer will not sponsor any unless it is job related. I can't pay for a second degree. I guess I should just take the salary cut, and see where it goes from there, since I am most likely going to get outsourced at sometime in my career. It does not seem fair to me that I should suffer because of all the hard work and hours I put in. I am told to give 120% to the company, which I do. Then I get rewarded via benefits. Apparently, now my benefits are 'too expensive', and management is telling me that even though I am a good worker (and I gave the 120%), they are going to penalize me because they gave me too many benefits. Should I have refused the increases or bonuses I received because I did my best and made their systems better in the process, or allowed others in the company to be more efficient? I guess that does not matter. So give me a reason why I should give 120% of my effort to my job. It's not worth it anymore. What kind of job can't be outsourced? To me, that seems to be the career to transition to. Maybe I should become a carpenter, plumber or landscaper. The problem is that the outsourcing we are seeing now is not being done COMPETITIVELY. What we are seeing now is unfair outsourcing, as the other countries do not have the laws and benefits that we have in the US. Our economy and standard of living will suffer and theirs will improve. This will level the world's economy and keep the US from being in a leadership position. Sorry if this seems depressing, but I don't see any silver lining in this outsourcing cloud.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Perhaps we should all become plumbers. It is unlikely that our pipes and sewer systems will fall prey to the outsourcing frenzy. Well,... maybe the just outlets, as there is ample precedent already. Unless the quality of overseas programming skills has increased immensely, I doubt the trend will last. Some years ago, while working for a company that sent Y2K work to India, it had to be sent back several times, and ultimately, some parts fixed back here. Also, I am sure that when they get up to speed, their own businesses and government will need them, salaries will rise, cultural and time differences will be shown to impede services, and short-term gains will disappear. Logic and skill do not go out of fashion as easily as programming languages. There will be reductions and changes. But fortunately, the US probably has the best educated and hardest working population in the world. Unfortunately, much of that population will suffer until the string-pullers decide outsourcing is not as profitable as they thought.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Tonight (Monday 3/15/04) on the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather they are scheduled to air a report "... on why so many American businesses prefer to hire NON-Americans." In another word: outsourcing. Also, the issue of outsourcing is discussed just about every night on CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight which airs 6-7 p.m. ET Monday-FridayComment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
As U.S. jobs move abroad, more Americans are willing to work overseas. .... http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/09/pf/w...ndia/index.htmComment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Sonnyc1 said: "In other words, if you don't find a place in management (or convince upper mgmt to make one for you) your place in history is, well history." That's exactly the wrong attitude. Being a business man first (or business woman) and a programmer second has NOTHING to do with being in management. It has everything to do with solving business problems. If you can solve business problems without jargon, without bringing up why it CAN'T be done and with ease then you will be a valuable resource to the company. Coding can be done by many drones, it's the solving of business challenges that is very hard to export. If you simply love coding and want to sit in a corner all day long and do that then, yes, your opportunities for working in the U.S. will be limited in the future. If you come with fresh ideas that help improve a company's bottom line then your opportunities are unlimited. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Doug, A good Sr. P/A in SoCal can get in the 6 digit range, or thereabouts. Are you getting 20% more than that and can't support a family? chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Doug Englander"Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Chuck, No, I'm not getting 20% over a 6 digit salary. I guess I won't know if I can do it unless I actually have the "opportunity" to do it. As bobtheplanet said, logic and skill don't go out of fashion as easily as programming languages do. So I'll stick to that for now to see where it gets me. I can write specs in english for any programming language, as long as I don't have to program in any language. I have done that already. I guess I have always felt comfortable (when writing specs for an RPG programmer) that I could code the solution if the programmer was stuck. Now I won't have that luxury (as I'm not planning on learning a new language at this time), but maybe I didn't even need it in the first place. Maybe just knowing waht it will take to get a job done on the system is enough these days.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Perhaps salaries run that high in Southern California, but last time I checked they don't run that high in many other places. Perhaps more companies should start looking at the highly inflated salaries of personnel in Management positions. They might be able to save a nice chunk of change.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
For Tom: Interesting article and good insights, keep up the great work! For cycleman: cycleman wrote 'Maybe I should move to India, and see what I can do there, and send my paycheck home to the USA.'. I work in IT for a large organization, (in the USA), with many co-workers from India and am already dealing with people that are ‘offshore’. I work closely, (that is, here in the USA), with 2 of them, (from India), and they have told me that over in India a salary, (in US currency), of $15,000 to $25,000 dollars a year would enable a person, (over in India), to live like a Raj, (King in English). Are there any recruiters out there attempting to recruit US workers to India? With this new so called ‘global economy’, maybe job hopping may begin to include ‘country hopping’. In theory, a so called ‘benefit’ of having people working and collaborating in different time zones is a constant 24 hour a day push on the business solutions.Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
In many small shops a programmer is also the person talking to the "users" to implement the business logic. Part of the challenge of programming (and the fun!) is implementing the business logic in code. Overpriced "middlemen" aren't really "needed" in this scenario. You have two positions for the price of one!Comment
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Look up from Your Code! Where Has Your Job Gone?
Tom Stockwell's very important article identifies and articulates a realistic and much needed road-map towards saving and securing the job of the American programmer. American programmers must double or triple their productivity and value to their corporate employers, or lose their jobs to more competitive, more motivated, less expensive, and far better trained programmers. Tom has identified the start of that path, and American programmers need start by snapping off Friends or the football game and actually try to become competitive. That is exactly what their competitors are doing.Comment
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