I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Hey Sarge c'mon...If ibm made the RPG compilers check spelling on comment lines...Well that would be like developing BGU, or GDDM, or RLU...for this platform and have nobody using it. Spelling doz matters allot...But only if a person writes something. You can't tell but the words I speak are commonly mispelled...But nobody knows right? Code is phonetic. Hey! You spelled that variable wrong. Hoo-hoo :-) Anyway the disparity between me and my users thoughts is usually an apron for the drool and slobber flowing from their mouths down to their bibbs. Attention building ops...We need a mop and bucket and some meds over in customer service...Winnie, neigh-eigh-eigh, Hi-Ho-Silver, Up-up and Away... Good Luck everyone.

[Sarge]

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

no doubt. i know several programmers that i have worked with in the past who you probably could do the same or better (hopefully better) work than they did.

but at least they could spell. if you have problems spelling simple words, what kind of disparity is there between yourself and users trying to convey a thought?

-Sarge

[HALLARAN]

"fruction of an American worker?" that says it all right there. Seriously employers if you really want to compete and make money, for god sake go with people "who have been there". Everyone "thinks" they got what it takes, (Like BP thinks it can drill in deep water, LOL).
I say go with one who has been there many times. If you want to risk loss be my guest, otherwise contact me, I have been doing this for more than few months.

http://sites.google.com/site/as400solutions/

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

And you assume that everyone else is sitting around being unproductive because they posted something on here? This forum to me is an invaluable source of knowledge. And besides that, if you've never been outsourced--it ain't about the knowledge and productivity, it's about $$$$$$. You have no way of judging whether or not someone is productive at the time they post to this forum or if they are even at work for that matter.

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Hi All, Don't get me wrong. I am just trying to make you aware that nowadays many projects go outside usa. They could be done even better then in states.Obviously, for lot of less money. My opinion, there are many opportunity for americans IT and Business creative people.They need to found a project in US, desighn the priorities and send it outside, and of course, to manage it. I bet they will make more money. Of course, its not for everyone. Many people think it's unethical. I think, it's great. Thanks to the internet and new laws. Thanks

[OzzieH]

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

I know this is quite presumptuous, but what the heck. Did it ever occur to any of you that if you redirected the time spent posting these barbs towards your career, maybe the increase in knowledge & productivity would make your employers less likely to outsource your jobs?

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Did anyone notice the response to not putting quotes around things--"I fixed the quits"????? Oh sure this will work for communication with users who would have to decipher emails from this guy, no problem. I couldn't continue reading because I was laughing too hard!

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Well, it is the dawn of a new age.....Even I agree with Chuck.

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

This is, after all, the age of Aquarius! (Whatever that means.) chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Joe Wells" wrote in message news:6ae9ee93.25@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Chuck Ackerman, and David Abramowitz in complete agreement on an issue. > > I guess the planets really are in alignment! Enjoy, because it supposed to be 30+ years before it happens again! > > Joe

[J.Wells]

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Chuck Ackerman, and David Abramowitz in complete agreement on an issue. I guess the planets really are in alignment! Enjoy, because it supposed to be 30+ years before it happens again! Joe

[David Abramowitz]

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Chuck Ackerman wrote: EXACTLY WRONG! The VERY FIRST requirement I have when hiring a new programmer is "excellent communication skills." I can't stress this enough! I don't hire programmers to sit in a corner and pound out code, I hire developers to solve business solutions. I can't believe it. Chuck Ackerman, and David Abramowitz in complete agreement on an issue. Will wonders never cease. Dave

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

javajuniourexpert said: "I fact, what I tried to say is , ones verbal skills has nothing to do with the technical skills. In other words, a person might be a great communicator, but a poor programmer and vise versa. So , do not judge me or anyone by only verbal skills." EXACTLY WRONG! The VERY FIRST requirement I have when hiring a new programmer is "excellent communication skills." I can't stress this enough! I don't hire programmers to sit in a corner and pound out code, I hire developers to solve business solutions. The programmer must, I repeat MUST, be able to communicate directly with the end user to fully understand the problem they are to solve. They must be able to converse in non-technical gibberish that engenders the confidence of the end user. And, most of all, they must understand what the end user is NOT saying. I.E. they must be able to read between the lines. If this type of communication doesn't exist there will certainly be a number of miscues, bugs and mistakes when the program is put into production. Communication is the KEY to a successful and complete project. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

First, go back and read your own posts. You are too trying to put blame on the failures we have mentioned. You basically said it was our fault that we experience these problems. When in fact it was the fault of the outsourced company that is the problem. I never said outsourcing was bad. I've in fact said I have been part of outsourcing. I believe that outsourcing to a company that does not have the skills to complete the project with minimum interventions is wrong. Outsourcing to a company that cannot communicate with the appropriate user community is wrong. The whole idea of outsourcing is supposed to save the company money not cost them more. Since I am currently a contractor, I am an outsource company. Utilizing me presumably saves the company the cost of hiring a System Analyst. The thing is that I have the skill set to perform the job, whereas, we have been talking about the all to many companies in other countries that do not have the skill sets to perform the contracts they aquire.

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

The project requirements should be documented and given to the company that was hired, along with any documentation on the standards of programming (i.e. field names, program names, file names, standards of coding, etc.). Training implies sitting down with someone and teaching them. I know when I recieve specifications they are pretty detailed. I know when I write specifications they are also very detailed. If the company or companies team leader cannot understand the specifications then it is up to them to seek clarification or "aquire other skills". Being able to read and understand specifications is a major requirement in the IT world. I'm not saying that questions will not come up during and maybe even before the project starts. I do expect any company I hire to be able to understand the specifications I give them or to promptly ask for clarification. I also expect not to have to train anybody on the specific application level of the project, since the company I hired already informed me that they had knowledge of this (or should have informed me up front that they needed time to learn the application). A project requirements change per project, therefore, an understanding of project should have been accomplished prior to making a bid on the project (no training should be needed). This is of course presuming that the company was dealing honestly with me. Personally if I found that the company I hired did not already have an understanding of the project I would fire them and hire someone that did understand the project. Otherwise, I'm looking at an even higher cost. Creating a potential long term relationship with a 3rd party company is based on the performance of the 3rd party company. If I have to train the companies employees (at my expense) then I will loose the cost saving for outsourcing to the company. You don't seem to have a grasp of what professionalism and business ethics are. Why would you promise you can complete a project but have not knowledge of the project itself? Remember when you (or the company) signs the contract you have made a commitment that 1) what you said you can do, you can and 2) that you take responsibility for completing the project to the specifications provided. So, yes I think it is wrong for me to have to train you on the specifications of the project. You should be able to read them. It is then your responsibility to ask questions to ensure you understand the task at hand. There is no way I'm going to know that you do not possess the knowledge to complete the task. Remember, you keep using the work train. As I've said the word implies the person has a lack of knowledge that is needed. Maybe it is your choice of words. If you truely mean that the leader needs to communicate and work with the client and vise versa then yes I will agree. This still does not resolve the issue about the code being poorly written, or the project not being completed as specified, or the completed project being buggy. These are issues that the "team leader" should have addressed prior to turning the project over to the client. As to your use of the word 'model'. I again think here is a language problem. I believe what you are trying to say is the structure within the company. Then again I may be out of touch with some of the new catch phrases. The bottom line is, and I've said this before, the vendor must take responsibility for what they do or don't do. If the resulting product doesn't work or is not within the specification they were given then it is their 'fault' not the fault of the client. You keep saying the client should take responsibility for the vendors inability to complete the project properly. Remind me never to do business with you.

I could offer the same or better IT work for a fruction of american worker

Glen, I do not blame any parties. I am just trying to discuss the possibilities of outsourcing. So far I've read only negative replies. I think it's not only negative, there are might be some positives. However, I guess, the people are so proud to put aside the emotion and to consider the reasonable factors. Glen, I am a little disagree with you about your statement " it explains all". "Again, I am not a programmer that makes sound codes" this was my answer to Chuck. When he wrote:

"However, you've done us all an eye opening public service. If your >participation in the newsgroup is a preview of how you write code, >then you've convinced me that offshore, foreign language programming >is something that I'll never pursue. Thanks for the public service!"

I fact, what I tried to say is , ones verbal skills has nothing to do with the technical skills. In other words, a person might be a great communicator, but a poor programmer and vise versa. So , do not judge me or anyone by only verbal skills.