Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • R.Daugherty
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    Oracle is trying to unite Eclipse and Sun's NetBeans and make the issue go away. Not sure how JBuilder fits into this. from InfoWorld: Oracle joins Eclipse By Paul Krill November 12, 2002 5:23 am PT ORACLE ON TUESDAY plans to announce a two-tiered strategy for promoting standardization in the tools space: The company is joining the IBM-led Eclipse tools initiative and introducing a proposal for a single API to access multiple vendors' Java-based interactive development environments (IDEs). The dual proposals were seen by one analyst as a way to link the competing Eclipse and NetBeans IDE camps. end quote rd

    Leave a comment:


  • R.Daugherty
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    Thanks for the explanations, Joe and Robert. I'll keep reading comments on Joe's column because this certainly has strong implications on our future, and a murky future it is... rd

    Leave a comment:


  • rdean400@yahoo.com
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    Your point is taken, but it should also be mentioned that where you use the term IBM (in this context), you should be using "The Eclipse Consortium." I don't know what the contribution levels are, but I'm sure that they have more help now, after over a year of being Open Source Software. Also, because SWT is OSS, someone willing to write the code for any UNIX variant would be able to use the code for any other UNIX variant (providing they use X and the same widget set). FreeBSD folks could probably use the vast majority of the Linux code (although that might be a moot point, due to FreeBSD's binary compatibility with Linux). Other devices (e.g., PalmOS, Symbian) would be more problematic, as you describe. With regards to the rest of the article, yes, I saw that as more positive than negative. I just wanted to address the point about SWT being proprietary.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.Pluta
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    The term "open source" is sort of misleading, and not really the central point here. What is at issue is that SWT is platform-specific. And while the JVM is also platform-specific, in a 100% Pure Java environment, it's the ONLY piece that is platform-specific. Plus, there is an entire suite of tests you go through to determine whether a new JVM is 100% compatible. With SWT, there's no such certification (yet), which means that even if someone creates a FreeBSD version of SWT, how do you know it will work with your application? And if it doesn't, who do you go to for support? The issue of compatibility is not limited to platforms IBM doesn't support, either. There's no commitment by IBM to ensure that future versions of SWT will be supported on any given platform. Because of that, IBM can "pull the rug" out from under any platform they choose. While Sun can conceivably do the same with the JVM, it's in Sun's best interests to have the JVM available in as many places as possible. Is it really in IBM's best interest to make sure there's a FreeBSD version of SWT available? If not, how does IBM justify the development of these alternate versions? And, if it's not financially sound to provide free ports of SWT, what's to stop IBM from charging a license fee for various SWT offerings at some later date? There is history for this sort of move: IBM did exactly that with WebSphere on the iSeries. Using a platform-specific interface is a business decision that must be carefully weighed, because you are potentially opening yourself up to some problems down the road. Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • R.Daugherty
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    I got the impression from the article that the SWT platform interface was not open source and that Eclipse is open source but uses a GUI interface that isn't, which sort of negates the point of Eclipse being open source, doesn't it? I've read of this IDE conflict in the trade press, with Sun having an open source IDE (I downloaded the source, can't remember the name of it right now) and not being happy about this from IBM. Well, as stated just before, they do no better themselves. However, the canvas thing threw me off, which is easy to do. It now sounds to me like Sun has a proprietary platform specific piece (JVM) and IBM has an equivalent for a GUI (SWT), but Sun thinks it's unfair and bad for Java? Wouldn't an equivalent platform specific piece for Swing have to be in the JVM, owned by Sun? Is there a thing against making platform specific bases of technology open source? Nobody has to do anything for anybody for nothing unless they want to (and usually to their advantage), but it lookls to me like both Sun and IBM are doing the same thing for the same reasons. Clarifications appreciated. rd

    Leave a comment:


  • J.Pluta
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    Robert, your point about SWT not being proprietary in the strictest sense of the term is absolutely correct. Since the interface is public (as it would have to be in order to be usable), you can conceivably write your own SWT platform layer. That is, if you want SWT for FreeBSD, you can go right ahead and write one yourself. So, in a purely philosophical sense, SWT is not a proprietary interface. In a practical sense, though, here's the issue: 1. While not proprietary, unlike Swing, SWT is platform-specific. Any new features added to SWT must be added for each platform. IBM may choose to let one platform lag behind. That platform will then have compatibility problems. This is what Microsoft has done with IE for the Mac. 2. Yes, you can write SWT code for other non-IBM supported platforms. Provided you port the native wrappers, or write completely platform-neutral interfaces using the Canvas widget (this latter option is basically what Swing does). In either case, it's now up to you to keep that code up-to-date whenever a new feature is added to SWT. Practically speaking, Windows developers get all the benefits with no added work, while, say, FreeBSD folks need to hope that someone updates the FreeBSD port, or else they need to do it themselves. Sio you are correct, SWT is not strictly proprietary. But it does allow IBM a lot of leverage as to which platforms are easy to support and which are not. All that being said, I STILL believe that Eclipse technology is so good that its benefits outweigh any issues surrounding the SWT implementation, and I think I stated that pretty clearly. While I think that SWT has some potential support problems, I hope you read the rest of the article and saw that it was far more positive than negative. Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • rdean400@yahoo.com
    replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    It appears that my reply was the victim of a bug, since I can't seem to find the reply text anywhere. The crux of my reply was that Sun's attempts to stick SWT with the "proprietary" label are false. That Joe devoted column space sympathizing with these points is distressing, because the otherwise uninitiated will take the point at face value. 1) SWT is an integrated part of the Eclipse Platform, which is license under the OSS approved Common Public License. So, it is pure open source technology, even if much of the development was done by IBM. 2) Sun seems to be in an awfully big hurry to cast dispersions on IBM for its "proprietary" toolkit. Even if it were true, Sun is in no place to play the proprietary card. The last time I checked, Java itself was not licensed under an open source license (just to be clear, we're talking Sun's Java -- it's true that there are clean-room open source implementations of Java). 3) There are ports of SWT for Windows, Linux (Motif and GTK), Solaris, HP UX, QNX, AIX, and so on. (By virtue of the fact that there are Eclipse SDKs available for the platform.) Apparently they have a PocketPC version of SWT, also. More info can be found in the SWT FAQ: http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index...-home/faq.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    Since Joe mentioned MIDRANGE-L in his article, I think it would be appropriate to mention that MIDRANGE.COM also hosts a mailing list for WDSCi discussion. Information can be found at http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/wdsci-l

    Leave a comment:


  • Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse

    ** This thread discusses the article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse **
    ** This thread discusses the Content article: Weaving WebSphere: Shedding Light on Eclipse0
Working...
X