Getting WDSC Version 6.0

[MCWebsite.Staff]

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
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[Guest.Visitor]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
In my response to the las article, I wondered about the wisdom of IBM by tying the right to have the development interface to owning an I5/As400. I am learning Visual Basic .NET because I can purchase the programming tool, and develop code on my PC. I would absolutely love to develop Websphere apps, but cannot learn this wonderful tool, because I cannot buy it (without buying an I5/As400). I think that Microsoft's tools will become the development tool of choice for creating PC based applications and connecting to the AS400 database in AS400 shops, because developers can get ahold of it, and learn it. (without having to have a microsoft SQL server running on a Windows 2003 box, in order to be given the priveledge of buying the development tool) IBM needs to find a way to let independant people like me get a copy of the development tool.

[J.Pluta]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
You can lease an iSeries for less than $200 a month. If you can't afford $2000 a year for your business, then I think Visual Basic is probably a more appropriate tool choice for you. By the way, there are even cheaper ways to get iSeries time, such as Netshare/400 which costs about $120 per YEAR, although I'm not sure whether they can get you a copy of WDSC. Joe

[T.Grove]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Joe, Thanks for the response. But, again the standard IBM line: You can lease an iSeries for less than $200 a month. If you can't afford $2000 a year for your business, then I think Visual Basic is probably a more appropriate tool choice for you. If you want it, buy an iSeries. What? Can't afford it? Then you must not want to develop using WDSC. I should be able to get a development tool WITHOUT buying the server. And, no I can't afford $2000/yr just to get my hands on a development tool. If I had another use for the iSeries that would make the investment worthwhile (and pay for that $2000/yr), I would already have one, and would not have to worry about being able to get WDSC. PS. YOU try to convince my wife that I need to lease an iSeries for $2000/yr for no other reason than to learn Websphere. (I'm definitely not dumb enough to try THAT one)

[DougCMH]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Get an account at Virtual 400. Get a "Developer's Plus" account. This will give you access to their iSeries, and they will give you a copy of WDSc. Cost is $300 per YEAR ($25 per month). A little bit cheaper than $2000 a year, I'm guessing. And you could probably write it off on taxes as a business expense.

[J.Pluta]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Sorry, but if I were a mechanic, I would be able to justify $2000 a year on tools. If I were a teacher, I could justify $2000 a year for ongoing education. Think about it this way: why would I want to buy a product from someone who isn't willing to invest $2000 a year in their own tools? Anyway, as Doug pointed out, there are options that are less expensive. If you can't afford three hundred dollars a year, then you probably want to consider another line of work. Joe

[Guest.Visitor]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Doug, Do you have an account with them? Have you been able to get the new release?

[T.Grove]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Joe, I could probably afford the $2000/year to get an As400. I can definitely afford $300/year for the solution that Doug mentioned. Your response: If you can't afford three hundred dollars a year, then you probably want to consider another line of work. was just a real cheap shot, and my respect for you has been diminished. However, you are still missing my point. I can purchase Visual Studio for a ONE TIME EXPENSE OF $179.00 WITH NO NEED TO BUY A SERVER. I can download the express version for free. I cannot even get close to WDSC without either buying a server, or renting space on one. Don't you think Microsoft knows this about IBM, and is marketing their development product accordingly? Hmmmm. Let's see. Free version to learn with, $179 to get the full version after learning, versus $2000/year in continuing expenses and a powerhouse machine purchased solely to get a development tool. Which makes more sense?

[T.Grove]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
PS. I spent close to $3000 last year on education, and I was on the bench for 9 months (Read this as no money coming in), as the job market in northern Indiana still hasn't caught up with the big cities yet. I have no problem investing in either education, or tools to advance my career. I would gladly purchase WDSC, and have tried to, but I cannot without investing in a server that I don't need at this point.

[J.Pluta]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
It was not a cheap shot, and I'm sorry if you took it that way. It was meant just the way I said it: if you can't afford $300 a year on your business, then you should find another business. Again, I'm sorry if you took offense. I am interested in your comment that you can buy VS.NET for $179. The cheapest non-academic version I could find was the $799 Professional Edition. Prices range from there to $1799. Also, all of those require at a minimum Windows XP Pro, which is an additional charge for most home computers. Are you talking about the Visual Studio Express editions? Because I thought those were specifically designed for hobbyists and personal use; I don't even know if you can use them to develop commercial software. Visual Studio 2005 will require an MSDN subscription. Your point about LEARNING the software is excellent -- it's definitely cheaper to learn MS software. But someday you have to actually pony up the cash for commercial tools; that was my point about not spending $300 (or even $2000) a year. And you can learn software on one of those leased iSeries machines for a relatively inexpensive price. Anyway, I apologize again; no offense was intended. Joe

[R.Daugherty]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Hi TAGrove, I read this awhile back but just now getting around to putting my two cents in. I've been using Wdsc the last two months. Like you, I looked at getting a copy of W when I was out of work to have some exposure to it on my resume. I found out the same thing you did but didn't know about the AS/400 account solutions mentioned here until just before I got my current job a few months ago. I was in the process of looking into getting an account and would have if still unemployed. However, it's all much ado about nothing. A good SEU programmer is just as productive in SEU as in W. I wrote a 12,000 line AS/400 jobs site web server in ILE RPG in three months with SEU. On the other hand, I just wrote complex subfile programs and DSPF's, smaller interface programs, reports with PRTF's, and some CL to wrap it all up with W with just about the same productivity. Most of the time when I see statements here touting W they say other programmers will respect us and RPG more if they see us using a visual editor. That's maybe the saddest reason for doing something I've ever seen. Coming from working with Java in JBuilder for the past year and Pascal in Delphi before that, W is the same. Colored syntax, popup syntax completion, Windows style context sensitive help, lots of tabs and windows to click around in, as many source files open as you want any of which you can cut and paste from, in other words a standard GUI programming environment. On the other hand as in Word and any other editor I turn off all automatic action. I can't stand software changing what I'm typing. But why is it much ado about nothing? Because you don't need an AS/400, RPG, or even Eclipse to get that exposure. Visual Basic would give it to you if you don't even want to learn Java, but Java in Eclipse would be the best mix in my opinion. Freely downloadable, the basics of W are there but with Java instead of RPG, and it is allegedly the direction we are said to be going in so is in line with the future of the AS/400 if true and an actual opportunity for a job if not. But like I say, any of the GUI environments such as JBuilder, NetBeans, or even UltraEdit text editor which I used for command line exercises to learn Java gives you the same basic experience. But before considering Visual Basic to get it I would recommend ASNA Visual RPG which they advertise is a .NET plug in to Visual Studio and doesn't require an AS/400. Is any of that worth a thing in getting another AS/400 gig? Not in my experience. Not one company in a year and a half wanted W experience or even mentioned it. I posted previously with similar findings concerning the other stuff talked about here predominantly, web pages and service programs. None. Quite frankly, to my amazement, a major company wanted skill in dealing with Level break logic migrated into RPG IV more than anything talked about here. I was so stunned to be looking at L1 and L2 in an RPG IV program while they were telling me "very few of our people understand this" that I'm afraid I laughed a little too inappropriately, at least for an interview. Given what you've said we shared a similar situation, so here's my take on it. Being able to nail the ILE RPG online tests such as Brainbench was the most important thing to recruiters. The tests have little connection to reality. They are made like any test is made, with some dude going through a manual and picking out obscure syntax and giving several close but no cigar options to the right syntax magic answer. Criminy, they've done enough stupid things to RPG without memorizing every horrid colon of it, but there it is. Over a year and a half I took the tests enough time to learn to memorize some of the more popular obscure syntax anyway. Of far more importance than W in my experience were things that you really do need an AS/400 account to get experience with if you haven't been in a shop that used it. IFS was a big thing. Only one company was specific about it, they wanted experience in FTP'ing from it, I said no, I had been FTP'ing from AS/400 libraries. I would say in retrospect that in that phone interview they were actually looking for a tip and had no intention in hiring me. The others were just package specific, and even version specific. I will tell you, I had given up on AS/400 shops. They are all over the map, and W may be a destination but what package you happened to be working on last was really all they cared about, which also doesn't say much about them to me. But in hindsight, they seemed to be jerking both me and the recruiters around with perpetual talk of hiring for projects that never materialized. I don't know what the holdup was, but I know whatever else they're doing is a lot more expensive than what AS/400 programmers gave them all these years. They'll find out the hard way. Meantime, good luck with your search, TA. rd

[David Abramowitz]

Getting WDSC Version 6.0

** This thread discusses the article: Getting WDSC Version 6.0 **
Ralph Dougherty intoned: I don't know what the holdup was I have found it to be an all too common practice. Managers will flood recruiters with requirements before a hiring budget has been approved, or even before the project plan has been approved. Then when the project managers' managers see the numbers, it will be decided that the project wasn't really needed in the first place. Dave