Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

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[Guest.Visitor]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
Article passage: Well, Java can be a pig. For an iSeries site with just one programmer or two, supporting a Java application can also be a tough go. But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater here. When properly configured, Java can run efficiently. We need to start thinking about how the iSeries can succeed in serving these kinds of applications instead of carting out the tired CGI vs. Java arguments. Question: The cost of labor has grown. Ten years ago it was an extremely smal part of average item cost. Today we have China and India to contend with. All costs matter. To this end, what is appropriate for SMB markets where only one or two iSeries programmers is the maximum allowed? Otherwise, very thoughtful article.

[Guest.Visitor]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
"Even if the system becomes a data server only, it still means it was the best server for the job, and that's not such a bad thing at all." Eerie that this statement is in the past tense. It "was" the best server for the job, it is just that it was "prohibitively expensive," so we bought SQL server instead. This will be corporate America's answer. Microsoft's MAP partners will see to it, just hide and watch!

[Guest.Visitor]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
"...so we bought SQL server instead. This will be corporate America's answer. Microsoft's MAP partners will see to it, just hide and watch!" I will be hiding, but not because of some irrational fear of MS. I will be hiding because in your dream world filled with SQL servers, identity theft will be more commonplace than traffic law violations...

[J.Pluta]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
"Prohibitively expensive?" This is a myth that definitely needs to be debunked. First, hardware: How much line-of-business (mission critical) storage do you need? How much does it cost to serve that data on, say, a nice model 520? Now, compare that to the hardware costs of a comparable server farm. Then, figure the costs of maintenance: 0.25 people for an iSeries. Not sure how many you need for your server farm. Finally, add developer costs: iSeries, one RPG programmer. Server farm, unknown number of MSCE certified folks. Tell me what the numbers REALLY are... Joe

[R.Daugherty]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
I can't say I saw any myths dispelled here. Suggesting that Websphere is referred to as a development platform as if people don't know that Websphere is IBM's application server is just silly. I think even the most clueless of us know the difference between Websphere and development tools linked to it by IBM. Anybody ever go through an RPG ILE manual and a comprehensive Java book such as the Black Book? How much of that stuff in the RPG manual is in Java do you think? Not much, I'd say. Maybe people think there's no reason for all that capability n RPG? Like maybe Toronto compiler writers were bored or something? So why's it in there, and just how do people replicate all that in Java, or do they? And if they don't, why do we use it? There was one point I agree with, and it's not a myth. New compelling software isn't being written for the AS/400. On the other hand, what new compelling software is being written anywhere? Oracle and Microsoft are racing to write that software, and it won't run on the AS/400. AS/400 software has a unique advantage that I believe people will return to as they now face only a choice among Oracle, SAP, and Microsoft. And that unique advantage has nothing to do with Websphere. There, there's a myth dispelled. rd

[Guest.Visitor]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
It seemed like a catchy title, but in retrospect 'myth' was probably not an appropriate term. "Confusion" would be a better word. The silliness you refer to is unfortunately rampant amongst iSeries development sites based on my observations. I don't think I'm talking out of turn here because I spend alot of my time talking to people at these sites, and believe it or not, most people have yet to make the distinctions I point out in the article. Seems like it should be simple, but you may be underestimating how much gets drowned out by the time any message makes its way to the average iSeries development site. I won't argue your other points other than to say RPG has its place and likely will for the near/intermediate future for a significant portion of the existing iSeries marketplace. Thanks for your thoughts Ralph.

[Guest.Visitor]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
Not sure what your argument is here. Did you read the article? My point was that Java and the iSeries do not need to be mutually exclusive. I'd be the last person to argue moving off the iSeries, even though some of our customers opt for that. I completely agree that Windows OS (and database choices) are challenged as a replacements for OS/400 and DB2/400. I admire your devotion to the iSeries, but I try to stay away from ideological preferences because there's always going to be a scenario where your particular preference may not really apply. For example, we have a customer that moved from RPG to Java on a Windows and SQLserver (not a farm of servers) and that customer's application works fine. It's not for everyone, but exists in our marketplace and we should be aware of that bias as well. It's not good or bad- it was a business decision.

[J.Pluta]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
I was responding to the sonnyc1's statement:[*]** It "was" the best server for the job, it is just that it was "prohibitively expensive," so we bought SQL server instead. *** This is a myth. The initial cost of a SQL Server farm may be a bit less than that of an iSeries, though even that is subject to debate depending on how robust you want your system to be. But even so, the ongoing expenses in terms of maintenance and support staff are much higher than an iSeries, giving the iSeries quite an advantage in TCO over even a relatively short time span. There's nothing ideological about it. I make my decisions and recommendations based on business goals. In fact, if you read anything I've written, or attend any of my classes or seminars, you will read or hear the phrase "it's a business decision" over and over again. Joe

[R.Daugherty]

Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries

** This thread discusses the article: Dispelling the Myths of Java and WebSphere on the iSeries **
Noteworthy to have some followup comments on the comments, Chris. Much appreciated from this reader. I re-read my post and saw that I quickly segued into a point I wanted to make about the complexity of RPG that is lost on everyone but those who know just what the complexity accomplishes for business solutions, but I see my post erroneously looks like it's addressed to your column's points. After the Websphere point, I had moved off into my own little rant. Bottom line of my rant: RPG is a complex business language that have had those capabilities added specifically because they're needed. We all know that here. Does Java even have these business language capabilities, and if not, does it need it or is RPG capability superfluous? The recent thread on RPG enhancements shows if it's superfluous, more of it is wanted. Myths made for a better title, and needed for anything talking about what IBM has done to the AS/400 with Websphere. rd