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I was a Flex Edit junky for years. They discontinued support, oh, maybe two years ago. Partly due to the prolification of Windows versions coming down. I've gotten by with SEU and RPG-Free since. When I get a desktop upgrade next month I'll be looking at either CODE/400 or Code Studio (I would have tried Code Studio but it's untested on NT.4 I understand.) Randy Jacobson Portal Publications
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
Thanks for your answer (on how to install Eclipse). The install worked perfectly; now I need to get the JDE (Eclipse asks for it on start-up, which was expected). What's the easiest way to get the JDE? I apprciate your help. Rich Hart -
The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
You can get the JRE from Sun at http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/ This should actually be installed before you run Eclipse, but it sounds as if you will be ok if you install it after.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
I am quite sure that WDSC media ships with CDs and DVD. You can copy image of CDs to IFS and have remote users install WDSC without needing physical media. Tosh.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
Thanks everybody for your help! Will try downloading the JRE from Sun tonight. Yes, Websphere Development Studio comes with the CD, but when I tried to do an install, got the message "must have administrator authority" and could not go any further. All our programmers got the same message. ALL I wanted to do was load the LPEX editor and play with it in a stand-alone mode. IBM seems to have over-engineered and under-tested both Code/400 and Websphere. So, I guess that is no longer Microsoft's sole prerogative! One huge advantage to me (at least) of Eclipse is the OpenSource aspect; I always like to see how things are done "under the cover", when it is at all possible.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
I just had to respond to this one: as far as the "commented out" command: if the person responsible for the "comment out" had done something like the following: /* + DO-NOT RUNTHISCMD OPT(*NEVER) + */ or better: /*DLT* RunthisCmd Opt(*Never) *DLT*/ it would have been obvious to everybody! Duh! Years ago I got bitten by this too (A C-spec commented out with the bare minimum; id est, "C*", with the rest of the line in place with no changes). IMNSHO (that is, in my not so humble opinion), this issue has nothing to do with SEU; these kinds of things are part of a programmer's experience. Going thru the steep and bloody learning curve of learning a client-based IDE just so we can see pretty colored comments is like using a bomb to swat a fly (please overlook violent simile). As far as that goes, you can "color" comment lines with SEU too (using the well-know special attribute byte values), but I think it's more trouble than it's worth; plus opening up a whole new plethora of disagreements about "standards" (the standard is red/white/blue; how come you colored it pink!). In the other hand, I am quite convinced that all of us in the IBM midrange area really need to start learning some of these client-based tools in the near future, unless of course we are lucky enough to be very near retirement!Rich Hart Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
I have heard the CODE/400 is now available for free and comes with V5R1. My question is as a pgmr how do I access this. Hopefully is already easy and straight forward. I have no access or authority to have anything installed or changed from the 'operations' point of view. Thanks Karen LucasComment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
There should be a set of 5-6 CDs for WebSphere Development Client (for Iseries). The Code/400 is part of that suite… DanielComment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
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This is a discussion about The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
I feel your pain Bob, but programmers just don't like IDEs. We are a Java shop with lots of J2EE, Perl and Python. All our programmers use Notepad to cut code. Proprietary IDEs have a learning curve and local peculiarities that our folks lack interest in mastering. Fast compilers and debuggers lower penalties for no editor syntax checking and auto-formatting. My last position involved Notes, C, C++ and RPG; since no IDE would handle all requirements, we didn't use any. Privately, IDE makers says that they have a lot of trial downloads that don't translate into sales. So it isn't just RPG programmers, but programmers in general. Betamax was better than VHS, but lost, Go figure.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
Although we're a pretty progressive shop, I still write my programs out on a legal pad, and then key them in. I know it's old school, but the focus is on the logic, and running through the code manually instead of a compile and hope it works approach. The tab oriented single line entry mode in SEU works great. I can enter a program without ever looking up at the screen, and without ever reaching for the mouse. I tried CODE/400 and Visual RPG... tremendous learning curve. One product that we do use that has helped a lot is RPG Alive. If you haven't tried it, you should. For one, it maps your do/if logic as you enter lines into SEU. It even kicks in when you're in source debug mode. It gives you a full screen tab-like capability also, and has opcode sensitive prompting and help. It runs on your PC, and somehow intercepts what's on the green screen and reformats it with brackets connecting the beginning and end of logic blocks. It even highlights when you try to copy, and reminds you in red when you try to delete. I know the rage is GUI everything, but us old style programmers know that it all comes down to the logic. All of us need tools, but making your source entry Green Screen or GUI doesn't make your logic different. Keeping your focus on the logic, rather than where your mouse pointer is, just removes one more distraction from all the competing demands on your mental focus. New programmers may love the GUI approach, but those of us who go back to the keypunch days, still appreciate the CC and MM options in SEU.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
I would have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of SEU especially if you consider its attributes when used within a terminal emulator on a PC. I would agree with a number of SEUs deficiencies such as being unable to edit files in the IFS; but others just require some creativity. For example (I use CA for an emulator); I have a button on my emulator's tool bar that will compile my program from inside the editor macros like this are extremely easy to create due to the design of SEU. Cut & Paste - You can do it by line (with great features like skeleton entry); and Client Access has a great column based copy and paste (I sometimes move PC programs to OS/400 so I can use SEU just for this feature which Visual C++ does not support). The thing I like best about SEU; however, is that it is fast; much faster (both opening files and using the interface) than Visual C++ or Code/400 (the only 2 other products I have much experience with) and that it does not require much in the way of resources or bandwidth. I think all of the editors have strengths and weaknesses; and I would like to see them all improved; however, I would hate to give up the feature set of SEU (especially the speed) for the same reasons I would hate to see the CLI give way to Operations Navigator; the CLI is faster and much easier to create scripts around.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
Bob, the bottom line for me as a programmer is speed. I had great hopes last year when I tried Code/400, but after using it for a few weeks, I found that I could not be as productive in a Code/400 environment as with SEU. Code/400 takes forever to load, executing commands in the "pseudo green-screen" is difficult, and the environment did not seem to be terribly intuitive. I don't consider myself a green-screen bigot (We use Visual Studio to code ASP in a gui environment and it is much easier to use than Code/400.) But it's all about productivity.Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
Visual Studio does support a column cut/paste feature. I like the RPG Alive tool, also. I saw it at a client-site and the programming staff loved it! I was really impressed with how well it works, if you're stuck with SEU, at least get RPG Alive! I also agree that CODE/400 is slow and hard to use. The good news is that Eclipse is not hard to use, but it is SLOW.
Hence, this is why I continue to use CodeStudio. Also some people I work with say that installing just the LPEX editor (the engine behind CODE/400) along with the COBOL, RPG and DDS support is actually pretty fast and relatively easy to use. As to the issue of using NotePad over Visual Studio I don't really have one. A lot of "old school" HTML coders use NotePad (if you want to call them "old school" ). At least you can open multiple source members at the same time. As to saving and restoring source on the 400... well my only experience is with Codestudio which using a home-grown FTP client to get the files off the 400 and it seems to work pretty well. Comment
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The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU!
** This thread discusses the article: The Midrange Manager: Dump SEU! **
I agree that a GUI development tool for RPG would be better, but my main reason for not using one is time. I've downloaded Eclipse for use on Java development and I Love it. We just did our upgrade to V5R1M0 on the iSeries and noticed that the RPG compiler is now part of Websphere development studio. I've heard that an RPG plugin was available for Eclipse, but I don't have the time to try to figure it out. I went to the eclipse.org website and browsed for a few minutes, but couldn't find a "Download and install RPG plugin page". I've played around with the Eclipse software looking for it in the help but couldn't find it. I'm sure if I spent a few hours looking around I may find something. There are also other issues:- Concurrent editing - would I have to set up something to allow concurrent editing of source files? If the answer is yes, what server would have to be started? Does it come with the OS/400 or do I have to buy some 3rd party software?
- Security - Would I access the source files through the IFS? What kind of security would I have to implement to permit access to the source?
- Printed Output - I know this sounds old school but I like my RPG code printed out on the 132 column standard paper. Would I still be able to do that without printing to a file, uploading the file, writing to a spool file, and crossing my fingers?
- Upgrade compatibility - We always try to use IBM products to make sure O/S upgrades don't impact our tools, so this would definately push us in the Eclipse and Websphere direction.
- Source Locations - Would all of the RPG source have to be moved into the IFS or could we still access it from the library it currently resides in?
- Plugins for Dummies - Could you show me where to get the plugin?[/list]I would be grateful for some feedback, Thanks!
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