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I STILL have one client coding in RPGIII who refuses to consider RPGIV. They even have some leftover RPGII programs from S/34 days. Amazing but true. Tom.
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
The thing is, I did not take /free as just a change in syntax. I saw it as a small first step towards a long journey of survival. I still believe IBM just wanted to test our reaction and that they were badly discourage with the reaction. There is no progress in this direction since it first came six years ago. I know your message is "go ahead if you want to" but that OPTION you gave will be used as an excuse to stop going forward. I came a long way in my present shop convincing the Java programmers, the C++ programmers, the whole Dot Net programmers, and the whole generation of geeks that RPG is not an obsolete language but rather something much more powerful. I ported a whole freaking system away from a Gawd Forsaken language C Tree on to AS/400 and plan much more as I am teaching these geeks how to read this Java/C++ like code. No surprisingly, the disagreement came from the RPG guys!!! They insist the language remain the way it is supposed to be ... DEAD. No /free, no subprocedures, no ILE, no externalized IO, no nothing. Period. I win. Then one fine morning they find Manna from Heaven! A guru, that I spoke highly of, telling them "No. You dont have to". -
Is It Time for Free-Format?
Hassan wrote: "The thing is, I did not take /free as just a change in syntax. I saw it as a small first step towards a long journey of survival. I still believe IBM just wanted to test our reaction and that they were badly discourage with the reaction. There is no progress in this direction since it first came six years ago." Were we discouraged with the response to /FREE? No, not really. We knew it would take much time for acceptance. Considering past comments by Bob, the fact that he is now writing about /FREE should be taken as a positive sign. Fact is, though, ever since the heydays of RPG IV development of V3R1, the resources allocated to RPG IV development at the Toronto Lab have steadily decreased from release to release. Fans of /FREE should consider themselves extremely lucky that we were able to get that feature into the language at all. During the V5R1 development time frame, conditions were just right (ar at least the best that could be hoped for), and likely won't be seen again. Cheers! HansComment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
JonFParis wrote: I don't subscribe to the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" mantra. And neither do I, Jon. But then again, I am not management. I do not control the purse strings, and do not always have control as to how my time is allocated. My point, and I do have one, is that /free will be implemented first only in those shops that have the budget and resources that can be allocated to do so. DaveComment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
It seems Hans departure has had a drastic effect on RPG teams progressive attitude.
Apparently, I just returned from Mars. When, what, and why? - DanComment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Dan: Old news. I'm still at IBM. Just no longer in RPG development. "Business needs" two years ago forced a number of us into a new project responsible for a different compiler (PL/X) running on a different system (zSeries). (I still like to follow events in the iSeries world, though.) Cheers! HansComment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Not long ago, I worked in a company as consultant that ran AS/400 in S/36 mode. They did not feel all the conversion was worth the investment. What can you say? I did what I can ... moved on! That ship sank i.e. the company went bankrupt! Surprized?Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Hans. Nice to see you take interest in RPG, your X. LOL. Well what do you say if the RPG community had embraced /free warmly and pressed for total freedom? Would IBM have still layed back and nodded "Nay"? I don't think so! Big wheels like IBM move on feasibilities. Why would IBM fund some project that leads nowhere? I am sure IBM was thinking like this ... "Hey RPG programmers are not willing to move to Java. If the horse is not willing to move to the water, let us bring water to the horse. Let us make RPG look more like C++, Java etc. That will kill two birds with one stone. First it will be easier for RPG programmer to go to Java, second RPG will be more acceptable to C++ and Java programmers". Now if they did not persue in this direction, what else is the definition of "discouragement"?Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
I knew it would come sooner or later. I understand Bob's reasons and logic for waiting. My only regret is all those t-shirts I had made for the next RPG World conference, In big black and white letters; /FREE BOB What a waste. Oh well, shoulda moved on it sooner.Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Hi Bob: You mentioned: 'Always line up the ENDIF statement with its corresponding IF statement. The same holds true for the other conditional operation codes' If I may also add to leave a blank line before the conditional statement and a blank line after the conditional statement wouldn't hurt either.Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Hassan: That's some interesting speculation. But that's all it is. First, while I was involved with RPG, it was never our direction to make RPG look more like C++ or Java. Second, while we did dream about a fully free-form language, I don't think we ever expected those flights of fancy to amount to much. The resources were simply not available to us. While we knew that free-form calcs would face an uphill battle for acceptance, getting a fully free-form RPG language accepted would be even more difficult, making a business case near impossible. It's not "discouragement". It's "realism". Cheers! HansComment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Is PL/X a variant of PL/I?(I still like to follow events in the iSeries world, though.)
Keeping an eye on your baby, eh? ;-)Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
Is PL/X a variant of PL/I?(I still like to follow events in the iSeries world, though.) Keeping an eye on your baby, eh? ;-)
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
David, I have not seen guys surviving for long who beleive in this mantra. The idea of "Preventive Maintenance" is hard to sell in some shops. However it is still do-able. Unfortunately terms like "Re-Engineering", "Reverse Engineering", and all thsoe buzz words have gotten a bad name thanks to some of us consultant. In the name of Re-Engineering they will just rewrite code to fit their style and also to "Make Work"! We have to sell management that investing in "Maintainable" or "Readable" code is cost-justified.Comment
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Is It Time for Free-Format?
We have to sell management that investing in "Maintainable" or "Readable" code is cost-justified. I see this elsewhere in RPG world as well. The concept that rewriting a program and subsequent modifications is less effort than subsequent modifications is one of the silliest IT contentions I've ever seen. If it's that obscure to modify to make such a contention worth considering, it is even harder to rewrite while ensuring that preexisting functionality is unchanged. Can you imagine the testing the company must do to ensure that you haven't screwed up an existing production program because you don't like the way the code looks? Speaking of which, the people where this stuff comes from appear not to have a clue what it takes for a company to commit the resources to destroy and rebuild production software. We've often heard of TCO, total cost of ownership, where the AS/400 is the best. There's a reason companies run on the AS/400. Devoting IT and business people to rewriting, retesting, revalidating, reauditing, and reinstalling production software because a programmer contends it will be easier for him to make future changes is not one of them. rdComment
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