Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AJAX: The Java Killer?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    AJAX: The Java Killer?

    ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
    Ask them where JavaScript, RPG IV, COBOL, C, C++ and HTTP are being taught. I find academic types are the first to support an obscure "different for the sake of being different" technology, but are often last to start teach what the "real world" is using today. The fact is AJAX has surpassed even my hype and expectations of pervasiveness. Not only is this technique being used today in most of the top websites in the world, those that are not using it are moving to it like a stampede of buffalo.

    Comment


    • #17
      AJAX: The Java Killer?

      ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
      In addition, no one is still using dial-up No one is still using dial-up? How do you come to that conclusion?

      Comment


      • #18
        AJAX: The Java Killer?

        ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
        I don't see that AJAX as a "Java-killer" or even as an alternative to Java. AJAX is a technology for building rich web interfaces. While Java can also be used for this purpose (in the form of Java applets) that is but a small corner of the Java platform which is probably more pervasive on the server than the client. AJAX can be used with Java-based web systems (that use JSP for example) just as it can with RPG or .NET web systems.

        Comment


        • #19
          AJAX: The Java Killer?

          ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
          This a good question and something I've been thinking about since I wrote this article. 5250 applications are fast over today's dial-up line. After all dial-up is about the same speed as the old twinax connections we used to have when we were locally attached. The thing that made 5250 apps work and browsers or GUI apps not work well over dial-up is the amount of data being sent for 5250 apps was something like 1920 characters or less per screen. GUI sent several kilo's of data in a shot. With AJAX you are actually behaving and being more like a 5250 app. You're sending smaller packets of data and thus it may be, that an AJAX enabled web page delivers better results that a traditional "build it all at once, and send it" web page. The comment about dial-up is that from what I've heard from Google and Yahoo developers in the last month or so, is that they put dial-up usage at the bottom of the list when designing a new interface. In other words, they've raised the bar of connectivity. After all, the U.S. is at best second, and as low as 20th on the bandwidth speed charts compared to all other countries. This doesn't mean dial-up users are taboo or bad, or second class citizens. It simply means, you pick your market and "don't care" about other segments. Dial-up is a segment that the vast majority of web portals have decided to not be a significant factor in their design efforts. They have to move forward or competition, both foreign and domestic, will kill them.

          Comment


          • #20
            AJAX: The Java Killer?

            ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
            I think I said that too. But you mark my words, I believe within 6 months IBM will be "AJAX, AJAX, AJAX" in the same way they were "Java, Java, Java" just a few years ago. Don't read too much or extend the inflexions in my "voice" (i.e., prose) too far.

            Comment


            • #21
              AJAX: The Java Killer?

              ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
              The articles have been great (by Bob and others), and I found an article on the iSeriesNetwork site with some real working code (we need to see the RPG CGI side, not just the JavaScript implementation). I enabled an edit screen with the trick to turn the box red if an error occurred, but I don't have the chops to send an error message (necessary), as well as do cool things such as show a changing drop-down list for each letter entered. Please someone; give us some full-featured examples so we can get this going. I am in absolute agreement with Bob on this: AJAX gives HTML a green-screen like interface, i.e. no more error panel and back key, which most of my users laugh at. This is revolutionary, and will extend the life of web apps in iSeries shops like mine, because it is the best of both worlds. No Bob, how soon is the book available???

              Comment


              • #22
                AJAX: The Java Killer?

                ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                I, like Bob have been around longer that dirt. A very few times in my professional life I have had one of those special moments when I knew the world had changed. One was when I saw an IBM PC with a S/38 signon screen, I knew the wall between the PC and the Midrange had been forever breached. Another was the first time I got data back from an SQL into a Net.Data program and I knew that any AS/400 data could now be displayed on any browser, anywhere, anytime. Not long ago I copied an AJAX example, and modified a Net.Data application to build a SELECT of part number as I typed a portion of a part number. The result was astounding. I realized that the "stateless" programming model of web browsers where the entire page had to be rebuilt if anything changed was now history. What was displayed, retrieved or updated could all be instantly changed as the user made their inputs, all without having to retrieve and repaint unnecessary portions of the page. AJAX may not kill JAVA, but it will reduce the necessity to consider crossing the massive JAVA entry barrier. If a job can be done and done well using faster, cheaper and already understood tools then I doubt massive numbers of developers will expend the resources to employ JAVA just because it is JAVA. My vision for the future OS/400 -- PHP applications using AJAX calling SQL for data and the mountain of existing RPG applications for updates. Thanks Bob, great article -- Kelley

                Comment


                • #23
                  AJAX: The Java Killer?

                  ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                  Most Java browser applications are now in form of servlet or related technologies. They do not have startup issue because the thread resides in memory for the life of the application. This is one of the reasons people favor Java over RPG CGI in browser applications. The author might be referring Java applet which are now only used in very limited scenarios. Java works with AJAX very well partly because of the fact that the application is in memory and no startup cost is involved for AJAX request. RPG, on the other hand, will not be able to embrace AJAX well because AJAX applications usually involve much more server requests and RPG CGI thread has to be started for each request.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    AJAX: The Java Killer?

                    ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                    Agreed. The last I heard was that only 60% of the internet users in the US were broadband and the remaining 40% was dial-up. I visit a couple of sites that use AJAX and they are *slow*, but not as slow as downloading Java applets. Terry (who will probably never see broadband in his area)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      AJAX: The Java Killer?

                      ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                      This is an important point. AJAX has almost nothing to do with the server side; it is entirely a client-side technology. It's primary net end user result is typically a more "interactive" application. It achieves this by making more small, independent (asynchronous) requests to the server. But those responses must happen nearly instantaneously or else the entire interface becomes choppy (the interface tends to "freeze" or "jitter", which makes for a very unsettling user experience). Because of this, AJAX works best in a threaded environment. RPG is not threadsafe, which means that one request to an RPG program must block any other requests to that same program in the same job. In order to avoid latency from blocking, you need either more jobs or fewer requests. Since AJAX by definition raises the number of requests (sometimes dramatically), you may need more CGI resources just to keep the same level of performance, especially if those requests tend to call the same program. So in the end, AJAX is hardly a Java killer. And since the entry point to Java for JSP Model II is so low, the only people that it will keep out of the loop are people who had no desire to learn any Java whatsoever. And here's the catch: the learning curve for the Java you need to learn to use JSP Model II is no more intense than the learning curve for the JavaScript you need to use for AJAX. And at least you can debug the Java code; debugging JavaScript is perhaps the single most difficult task in IT today. Joe

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        AJAX: The Java Killer?

                        ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                        Terry, Repeat after me "My name is Terry, and I'm a dial-up user". I was like you, but I bit the bullet and moved. I can't work from home all day via dial-up. Of course if you work at work, you probably don't have this issue all day long.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          AJAX: The Java Killer?

                          ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                          LMAO...thanks for the comic relief Bob! Yes, I'm fortunate to have access to a T1 line at work Terry

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            AJAX: The Java Killer?

                            ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                            O.K. - Granted. . . . . . Now, how did the buffalo learn AJAX? Dave

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              AJAX: The Java Killer?

                              ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                              This one should be "AJAX: The Java Applet Killer." However, that wouldn't draw much attention because applets took a back seat to Flash years and years ago. Java's stronghold nowadays is on the server side, and it's quite happy getting along with AJAX. AJAX, for its part, is quite happy getting along with just about any performant server-side technology. A Java-based one that I've been eyeballing is DWR from GetAhead Ltd. It seems to be a really solid architecture for allowing client-side and server-side to talk to each other (as a side note, GetAhead has also taken up maintenance of Venkman, the Mozilla JavaScript debugger).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                AJAX: The Java Killer?

                                ** This thread discusses the article: AJAX: The Java Killer? **
                                When I last used it, Venkman was an adequate debugger, but at that time it didn't work very well with IE. Microsoft's debugger is pretty horrid. However, if you're really interested, the WDSC JavaScript debugger kicks some serious butt. It's not 100% intuitive but then again, a debugger that can debug code that can be generated on the fly by othe code isn't exactly a candidate for simplicity. And once you get around the hang of it, it works like a charm. Joe

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X