Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

I just had a thought--how about if we send the L1's and Bush and a few others up the moon and on to Mars????

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

... The American economy will be employing fewer engineers, accountants, information technology workers, stock analysts, radiologists, architects and research and development scientists – all highly trained top earners who ought to form the backbone of a vigorous and vibrant economy. And I'm talking the lock, stock and barrel loss of careers, not a temporary shortage of jobs. ... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=32789

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Whoa. The ad was there and said it was first posted on 1/6/04. Now it is gone. Maybe it will be back or maybe the job is filled. Anyway, it was not specific if they outsourced within the US or not. I am hoping this is a new trend.

[J.Pluta]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

And so it begins...

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

FYI - I see a job ad on dice.com looking for an IT Director in the Dallas area. Primary focus will be to bring in-house the IT department that was outsourced. Hummmmmm very interesting.

[David Abramowitz]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Rick, I can't tell precisely where to find the studies, but http://thomas.loc.gov is a very good place to start. You might be interested to know that several states (New Jersey is one of them) have their own legislation either passed or pending concerning the use of foreign outsourcing. Federal studies have commenced as a backlash to existing conditions. One republican congressman from Florida has a bill in committee that will put rational restrictions on the L-1 visa. I know it doesn't help much to know that you are not the only one, but there are things you can do. See if there are any local user groups where contacts may be made. You might also want to consider broadening your search. If all else fails, another line of work should be at least considered. The SBA, and other organizations offer free assistance in helping people to start their own businesses. Having other options is never a bad thing. Dave

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

RAThomas, I can sympathize, to a point. I too found myself out of work in November 2000. On top of that I'm in top I.T. management which has a lot fewer positions available than a P/A. Also, like you, I had two kids in high school and one in middle school. During my down time I found work as a independent consultant installing LAN equipment and working on PCs. My accountant gave me some work and the word spread from there. It was easy to find work at $75/hour. I considered doing this full time but my heart wasn't in that line of work. I was committed to making things work and was willing to relocate anywhere necessary to find a position. My wife supported me 100% and my kids knew it would be possible that they'd end their high school years in a different part of the country. I suspect that the idea of moving wasn't real attractive to my kids but I never heard a negative comment from them. They openly encouraged and supported me from the get go. While I was only out of work for 3 months I knew it could have been longer. And, not once during that time did I ever blame the government or foreign workers. I knew it was all about me and my flexibility and abilities. I know that my situation is different from you. But I also know that there are plenty of places to find work as a programmer if you really want to find them. In fact, I've hired 9 additional programmers since I've been at my current location in the last 2.5 years. Keep up the faith and look everywhere. Also, learn new skills. HTML programmers are in high demand right now. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "RAThomas" wrote in message news:6ae6ba8b.46@WebX.WawyahGHajS... | I have not been able to find work since Oct 2001. The whole issue to this outsourcing is denying the American workforce the benefits and salaries we have worked hard to obtain. The government has been fully on the side of large corporations allowing them to do this in the name of money. Our government representatives are mostly millionaires so why should they care. I am going back on unemployment and since for the last 18 months I have have been working for $9.00 and $13.00 an hour instead of my $50,000+ annual salary I will be lucky to get unemployment compensation of $200 a week. Of course, federal taxes will be withheld. I would like to see some study or figures on just how much federal, state and local revenues are lost. If the government would tax the large corporations for this lost revenue due to outsourcing and off-shore operations then perhaps things may change. I have a seventeen year old son and a fifteen year old daughter and am anxiously awaiting my tax rebate of 400 dollars. My seventeen year old of course is excluded, apparently the government things he should be making a decent living now as a junior in high school. And I think I will buy a new $26,000 vehicle with my $400 just to help the economy. You know we can't lose consumer confidence or we will be in a depression.

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

I have not been able to find work since Oct 2001. The whole issue to this outsourcing is denying the American workforce the benefits and salaries we have worked hard to obtain. The government has been fully on the side of large corporations allowing them to do this in the name of money. Our government representatives are mostly millionaires so why should they care. I am going back on unemployment and since for the last 18 months I have have been working for $9.00 and $13.00 an hour instead of my $50,000+ annual salary I will be lucky to get unemployment compensation of $200 a week. Of course, federal taxes will be withheld. I would like to see some study or figures on just how much federal, state and local revenues are lost. If the government would tax the large corporations for this lost revenue due to outsourcing and off-shore operations then perhaps things may change. I have a seventeen year old son and a fifteen year old daughter and am anxiously awaiting my tax rebate of 400 dollars. My seventeen year old of course is excluded, apparently the government things he should be making a decent living now as a junior in high school. And I think I will buy a new $26,000 vehicle with my $400 just to help the economy. You know we can't lose consumer confidence or we will be in a depression.

[David Abramowitz]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

A wiser man than me once said that "All politics is local". Letting your own reps know how you, as a constituent, feel about a particular matter, really drives home the point. It is true that most people don't know who their reps are. But I have found that by contacting officials, and getting involved I will get some positive results. This might be on small levels like getting a pothole filled, or a stop sign installed. On a large national question, the results will be achieved only by numbers, and not dollar numbers either. The more that participate, the greater the chances of change. Everything begins with the initial impetus to remove one's butt from one's chair, and actually do something. An unpoplular stance may lead to some rejection at first, but perseverance pays off in the long run. BTW, I have had Canadian clients, and have been to Toronto on many ocassions for these clients. I have found Canadiens to be intelligent, politically astute, and involved. They have told me that it is absolutely false that the Atlantic provinces wanted Quebec to seceed because they thought it would take 45 minutes off their trip to Toronto! :-) Dave

[dchristie]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Wow! I get the feeling that some people here actually believe that government represent the people (you know, the low percentage who actually vote). Not so, in US and Canada, government is run by and represents corporations. Corporations are run with cash, when they save cash this can be passed along to politians who make decisions for corporations to save cash, and the loop continues. I don't have a solution to this discussion, when I figure out how to stop US from taking jobs from Canada I'll let you know. Thanks

[David Abramowitz]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Why do you want the gov't to tell you whom you can and can't hire? I am troubled by the use of this language. It is nearly identical to the language used by the segrationists prior to the mid 1960s. Those with short memories have forgotten that language like this was used in the halls of congress to justify human suppression. It worked for many years. As one who can vividly remember the civil rights struggle that culminated in a consitutional amendment, I find that language of exclusion is personally repulsive. The United States is still quite the land of freedom and opportunity. To seek freedom and opportunity there used to be a price. It meant becoming an American. For millions upon millions of immigrants (including my ancestors, and most likely every other American's) this was a price gladly paid. They wanted to be Americans. They came here to be Americans, not only to share the treasures, but also to participate in the responsibilities of an American. Immigrants used to have the ultimate goal of becoming citizens. Immigrants have fought in our wars, paid our taxes, and particpated in our political process. The L-1 and H-1B programs have never been a matter of immigration. In point of fact, both type of visas insist that the "worker" return to his country of origin, and never use these programs again to gain entry into the U.S. These programs were never about freedom, they were never about opportunity. Greed, and an unlevel playing field werre the sole motives for enacting this legislation in the first place. Most congressmen I have communicated with admittedly state that they did not understand the effect that these programs would have, or anticipate the abuses that would occur. They also state that undoing a situation is far more difficult than creating the situation. The reason that democratic governments put restrictions on actions, is to protect its citizens, and ensure fairness in all processes. Dave

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Hi Susan, Im an Indian It professional working in singapore on AS/400 for the past 3 yrs. You're right these bodyshoppers (aka scammers) suck the mojo outta us poor guyz. They lure us with promises of a bright future in a foreign country (US mostly) and demand tons of money which our parents manage to gather by selling farmlands, houses , jewellery etc., Poor parents do so dreaming that their kids would go abroad , get a good job & repay the loan eventually. The scammers collect the money in India , process the H1 or L1 (mostly by providing fake docs..sometimes with the aid of corrupt US lawyers), bring these guyz to the US & contract them to the eager US companies for peanuts. so far, so good...most of the times these poor guys are on bench(either becoz they're no good or their skills not in demand anymore) & live in pathetic conditions...the scammer refusing to pay them full salary. I can go on & on...it makes me sick.. i wish you people could do something to weed out these scammers from your country.

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Susan said: Again, Ted, I want the immigration laws to enforced. Yes, you've said that several times, but you have not addressed my question. Again, between US citizens, green card holders, and the holders of other legal work permits, employers have about 300 million people to choose to hire or not hire. If you consider that the government telling you whom to hire, so be it. A question for you: Do you want to abolish the law that you must be a citizen or green card holder to legally work in this country? When I start with a new company, I (a US citizen) need to produce ID that proves my citizenship. Are you against that law? Do you feel that that the government is being too restrictive on your right as an employer? How is giving a job to a guy whose family is starving bad for him? Read the details about L-1 visas - typically the workers are paid the pittance they are paid at home. Therefore if they are starving in their home country, working here on an L-1 visa probably won't help them increase their standard of living any because they won't get a bump up in pay by coming here. That's why employers love L-1s, they can pay peanuts. Why legal workers? Why not just American citizens? If the law were amended to permit the hiring of illegal immigrants, would you then include them? Why would I discriminate against a legal immigrant assuming they are qualified for the job? H-1Bs that were brought into the country by corporations that are laying off Americans with the same skill sets are breaking the law. L-1s imported by body shops are here illegally. It's just a matter of the government and the politicians having the will and the courage to stop this abuse. ... maybe it has never occurred to you that the laws for which you are voicing support apply to you just as much as to the companies against whom you are railing. I don't follow your point. I would hire citizens and green card holders. I wouldn't lay off Americans while I petition the government to import H-1Bs. But you have not told me why you want that law to be enforced, even though it reduces your freedom. I want the immigration laws to be enforced because I am not a fan of anarchy. L-1 visas, for example started for a good reason. But it's being abused now and that must change. Rep. John Mica, a supporter of the original L-1 legislation was on CNN just today saying the L-1 needs to be reformed. The number of L-1s entering the country for IT jobs has increased despite the fact that the industry in a downturn. No wonder even talented programmers cannot find work, eh? I don't see how enforcing immigration laws to be what they were intended to be reduces my freedom. If you feel that your employees must be citizens or here on legal work visas is too much government interference, then we will have to agree to disagree. One last point: Both H-1Bs and L-1s are not supposed to be "pounding the pavement" applying for jobs like your or I would. Corporations must proactively apply to bring them here for a specific job. As CEO of Susan, Inc., I should never see the resume of an H-1B land on my desk unless I applied to the government to import him/her. H-1Bs and L-1s are admitted into the country to fill a specific job. If that job ends they are supposed to go home - both are temporary visas. When they enter the country under false pretenses, or stay longer than they are supposed to, they are here illegally as far as I am concerned.

[T.Holt]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Susan said: Again, Ted, I want the immigration laws to enforced. Yes, you've said that several times, but you have not addressed my question. The example you provide details why H-1B and L-1 visas are bad for the foreign worker too. How is giving a job to a guy whose family is starving bad for him? If I did start my own company, absolutely I would hire only citizens or legal workers. Why legal workers? Why not just American citizens? If the law were amended to permit the hiring of illegal immigrants, would you then include them? I can't believe you'd even ask the question. Probably your real point was that I start my own company. I have no ulterior motive here. I have not taken sides in this issue. I have noticed in everyday conversations, on talk radio, on the editorial pages of newspapers, etc. that people often voice support for laws or regulations that reduce their authority to make decisions, and instead transfer that authority to a government agency. That is all I am trying to find out. It is a general question that interests me, & I thought that this thread might help me understand. If it seems that I have another motive, then maybe it has never occurred to you that the laws for which you are voicing support apply to you just as much as to the companies against whom you are railing. I do hope that you will start your own company, but that is not what I am trying to accomplish in this thread. The economy is stalled and it would not be the smartest move right now. I have heard more than one person say that such circumstances provide the best time to start a business. People everywhere are looking for ways to cut costs. What a good time to build a customer base. And that is not the issue. The bottom line is that the immigration laws are not being enforced, and they need to be. But you have not told me why you want that law to be enforced, even though it reduces your freedom. Well, tomorrow (Monday) morning I go back to little-or-no-time-to-post mode. I appreciate the comments that have been made in response to my questions, and apologize if my asking questions has offended anybody. It may be that my questions are off the subject of the thread (but I don't think so.) If so, I apologize for the thread drift.

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Article: Downsizing jobs, outsourcing lives

Why don't you start your own corporation and hire an American. If I did start my own company, absolutely I would hire only citizens or legal workers. I would not apply for H-1Bs. Okay, now how will that solve the problem of corporations importing tens of thousands of workers illegally? I am glad that you hired a citizen to work for you - but that is not the issue because it does nothing to address the problem. The bottom line is that the immigration laws must be enforced. So back to my question. Why do you want the gov't to tell you whom you can and can't hire? Again, Ted, I want the immigration laws to enforced. The example you provide details why H-1B and L-1 visas are bad for the foreign worker too. As an employer, you can hire any citizen and green card holder that you wish to. There are almost 300 million to choose from.