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It's not about competition, folks...

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  • #16
    It's not about competition, folks...

    Joe said: "But if we don't, if we listen to the outsourcing apologists like those who inhabit this forum" I like the innuendo. I'll take the bite. It also appears that you simply just don't get my drift. I'm not for or against outsourcing. I'll be blunt. What I'm against is those who have ignored outsourcing for the last 50 years and then suddenly cry foul when it hits their profession. It's hypocritical and a case of someone saying their profession is more important than others. It's clear that people in other professions have adapted to being outsourced, why can't we adapt? Maybe we're just a bunch of old farts who can't stand change. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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    • #17
      It's not about competition, folks...

      Joe said: "In any event, if you're not willing to try, then don't bother complaining." On this we agree! chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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      • #18
        It's not about competition, folks...

        Chris said: "One thing is for sure. Any politician running for office this year that doesn't support keeping jobs in the USA will be unemployed." I think the gay marriage issue will have a much bigger impact on the election. Most see the outsourcing of I.T. personnel as retribution for the havoc that the I.T. industry caused in the late 90s. "They got what they deserved." chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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        • #19
          It's not about competition, folks...

          To kumargovindas: The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values. An extreme example would be if a XXX Video store offered cheap VCR players (at lower cost than my local video store). I would still NOT buy from them based on price alone. It is incumbant on us to support the companies that share our values. Instead of suggesting that we are penalizing a company by not buying from them...look at it this way...we reward another company when we purchase the product from them. It's called competition. THIS is the American Way. If they want my dollars, they must compete for it. And competition is not based on price alone.

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          • #20
            It's not about competition, folks...

            Nicely said, Chris. Joe

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            • #21
              It's not about competition, folks...

              Chris said: "The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values." In your opinion, of course. Chris said: "It is incumbant on us to support the companies that share our values." So, who is "the keeper of the values?" If I don't agree with your version of the "American Way" does that make me a bad guy or simply un-American? Chris also said: "Instead of suggesting that we are penalizing a company by not buying from them...look at it this way...we reward another company when we purchase the product from them. It's called competition." I agree. But Best Buy will still get my dollars. We can find fault with any company if we look hard enough. Do you shop at Ikea? All of their I.T. is overseas. Do you boycott Allied Van Lines? They are owned by a British company. Do you eat at Burger King? Another British company. Do you buy a GM car? Their entire I.T. is outsourced. I can remember when I was a child and lots of cheap products started showing up from Japan. My dad wouldn't buy anything made in Japan because of Pearl Harbor and WWII. Yet, today, things made in Japan, such as a Lexis or a Sony camcorder are considered high end products and we proudly use such products. Look at it this way. ALL of the Lexis and Sony IT departments are overseas! Consequently, if you want to not purchase anything from any company that has their I.T. outside the U.S. you'll be living in an empty house. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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              • #22
                It's not about competition, folks...

                Chuck, I am more than a little surprised at your response. Of course these are MY opinions, as are the comments you express here. Who is "the keeper of the values"? I am...You are...each and everyone of us. I could care less who you spend your money with...that is your decision. The point of MY post was not in relation to outsourcing IT. It was to express MY opinion that when I make a purchase I consider more than just the price. Things like quality, and yes...is this the kind of company that I want to support with my dollars, and even if it comes down to a choice between a product made here and made "elsewhere" (all other things being equal) I would probably pay a little more to buy a product made in America. (please hold your comments that some of the parts may be made outside the US). I understand the global economy. But consider for a minute, if you had a choice to buy a product made in America (from american parts put together in the USA) and a product that had nothing made or built in the USA and they were the same price and quality.....which product would you buy? MY personal choice is to buy American products when I can. If you want to "bash" me for expressing MY opinions and values....go right ahead. I couldn't stop you anyway....nor should I try....the 1st amendment you know.

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                • #23
                  It's not about competition, folks...

                  Chris said: "The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values." Then said: "If you want to "bash" me for expressing MY opinions and values....go right ahead." Sorry if I misunderstood, but if you reread the first quote I think you'll agree that it was not presented as an opinion but as a fact. If it was an opinion then I think I'll have to politely disagree. Why? I don't have any inkling as to what the values of a company is. And, I certainly can't surmise it from the outside by listening to sound bites on the TV or on slanted articles on "news" websites. Chris also said: "But consider for a minute, if you had a choice to buy a product made in America (from american parts put together in the USA) and a product that had nothing made or built in the USA and they were the same price and quality.....which product would you buy?" You pose a potentially tricky question... I DO make my vote with my dollars. I specifically have chosen never to purchase an automobile where the profits are not kept in America. This isn't something that I suddenly chose because of the current world affairs. I made this conscious decision over 30 years ago. And, I don't buy a foreign car and compromize my beliefs by sheepishly saying that, "well, er, um, gee it was assembled in America. That's good enough for me!" I look where the profits and taxes on those profits go. Consider this. Purchase a Mercedes (or Chrysler or Lexis or Porsche or Nissan) for big bucks and you are handing over thousands of dollars in the form of taxes to a foreign government who pretends to be our ally and then uses this money to undercut us at their whim. (Again, I agree with you that nothing is 100% U.S. made, but where the corporation's headquarters is located IS important from a tax standpoint.) I have no idea if GM or Ford share my "values" and it's simply not important to me. I only know that when I buy a GM or Ford car the taxes on those profits stay in America. I give too many of my dollars to the American government already, I don't want to pay taxes to Germany or Japan also. IMO, the American Way should be to keep as much of my disposable income out of the hands of foreign governments as possible. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                  • #24
                    It's not about competition, folks...

                    Chuck, The last time I read anything on this, the actual profit to a foreign company producing a car here in the US is only hundreds, not thousands. With the large portion of the taxes, labor, staying here in the US. However, this doesn't take into account where the individual parts are made. The foreign designed cars usually have a few more foreign made parts, but not a huge amount. If you are saying we should maximize the money we keep in the US by buying US made, AND US owned, then I see your point. But if you are thinking that buying a US made foreign car is as bad as buying a US car made in another country, please note that economists have long said that buying made in US is many times more important than buying owned in US. Just wanting to make sure I understand what you are saying............ -dan

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                    • #25
                      It's not about competition, folks...

                      Consumer's Doctrine: Buy at the Affordable Price, Acceptable Quality, and a Reliable Service/Support. Nowhere in the equation is the outsourcing issue. In fact product origin is always synonymous with Quality or Service/Support. It's a consumer perception based on experience. But, we're talking here of a retail store who is going to outsource 1000 jobs. Assuming the idea of a boycott will take off and a winner. Best Buy will go bankrupt and 50,000+ people will go unemployed and we don't care for these souls because they are not from I.T. What kind of mentality is this? Is this the American way? I'm sure the majority would rather take the lesser evil - not to boycott. Personally, I'm against outsourcing, but to boycott is not only disruptive, but also uncivilized. My advice, buy with your concience. Don't be swayed by evangelists with a hidden personal agenda.

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                      • #26
                        It's not about competition, folks...

                        Your mind works in mysterious ways, kumar. A boycott does not make a store go bankrupt (unless they continue to do what is being boycotted and EVERYBODY decides to stop doing business with them). A boycott is also a time-honored American tradition, hailing back to the Boston Tea Party. You might try reading a little history before trying to tell me what is or isn't American. And I don't know what YOUR agenda is, but mine, while it might be personal, is definitely not hidden. About the only thing I do agree with is "buy with your conscience". Choose between a chain that is obviously willing to sacrifice American jobs for a few extra pennies on the share price, or some other competitor. Easy choice for me! Joe

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                        • #27
                          It's not about competition, folks...

                          Kumar, You make me laugh. Do you really think the Best Buy CEO / President or the entire board of directors would allow a boycott to drive the company bankrupt? No, if a boycott impacted earnings, they would take a corrective action (example - bring jobs back to the uUA) instead of staying the course. Obviously, you're not a business person. Even if Best Buy did go bankrupt , that means their competition needs to hire people because their competition picked up a few billions dollars in extra business. Chris

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                          • #28
                            It's not about competition, folks...

                            Chuck said, "... I have no idea if GM or Ford share my "values" and it's simply not important to me. I only know that when I buy a GM or Ford car the taxes on those profits stay in America. ... " Chuck, The CEO's profits and salary stay in the USA when you buy a GM car, but the average jobs don't. GM manufactures cars overseas and they actively ship IT jobs offshore. Now, if you prefer to make an American CEO rich rather than a German or Japanese one, fine. But buying a GM car doesn't help average Americans more than buying a Nissan or other so-called foreign car manufactured in the US.

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                            • #29
                              It's not about competition, folks...

                              Joe said: "About the only thing I do agree with is "buy with your conscience". Choose between a chain that is obviously willing to sacrifice American jobs for a few extra pennies on the share price, or some other competitor." This is silly. So, because Best Buy gets some press that isn't favorable we should switch over to Circuit City, or Good Guys, or Target? How do we know that those companies haven't done some atrocities much worse than Best Buy? Oh, of course, we didn't see it on a web site! Ok, I bet if I scour the web long enough I'll find some dirt on Circuit City. But, you know what? My life is too short to spend my time worrying about where NOT to shop. So, what I gather is this... If we see something we don't like in the news or on a web site about a company then we should immediately boycott. The only thing that will come of that is the promotion of dirty tactics by competitors. And, what if the news about Best Buy is incorrect? What if they were just floating the idea in a executive meeting and someone leaked out the information? No amount of denying the leaked information will deter the "boycotters" once their snowball is rolling down the hill. I'm all for boycotting those who violate the laws or illegally use the visa laws but I will NOT boycott them until they've been convicted of a crime. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                              • #30
                                It's not about competition, folks...

                                I know VP level IT exec who got laid off in the last year, who just spent two weeks in India, and family members say he's got something cooking with Best Buy.

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