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Joe said, about Best Buy: "How can I continue to support a company that lays off my coworkers for no reason other than greed?" Joe, I'm struggling hard to try to support your ideas. Unfortunately, I find them too parochial instead of broad. It seems that "we" in this forum are up in arms about outsourcing of jobs ONLY because it's I.T. workers being displaced. Did we call it stop buying Nike shoes (insert any shoe company here) because they stopped making shoes in America? Did we stop buying GE or RCA televisions because the TV assembly workers were outsourced to Taiwan? Did we stop buying Ford or Chevrolet cars because the radios are no longer made by American workers? Did we stop shopping at Vons or Safeway or A&P because they sell vegetables from South America displacing American farmers? Are we to believe that outsourcing just began with the I.T. job? The way I see it, many professions and jobs have been outsourced over the last 200 years. It's just now getting up to the I.T. profession. In any event, I DO believe that, as in the past, some jobs/professions get outsourced and newer jobs and professions come along to replace them. Certainly, 50 years ago, no one would have dreamed that we would have had an entire industry that consists entirely of computer programmers. That entire profession sprang up mostly in the last 30 years ago. If we were to be having this discussion about outsourcing I.T. jobs in 1960 then no one would care. In conclusion, I think the fire alarm is ringing in this forum because the fire is in our house. We've ignored the fires in many of the other houses in the neighborhood because they didn't affect us. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.
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It's not about competition, folks...
OUTSOURCING is bad to the affected few, but to boycott company's that outsourced some of its business functions is not only immoral, but also bad economics. Kill the company and you displaced its whole organization. -
It's not about competition, folks...
But if you don't boycott Best Buy then their competition, who doesn't outsource IT overseas, goes out of business because they can no longer compete, unless they outsource IT overseas too! I'll gladly boycott Best Buy or anyone else for just that reason. One thing is for sure. Any politician running for office this year that doesn't support keeping jobs in the USA will be unemployed. ChrisComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
"Unfortunately, I find them too parochial instead of broad." Chuck, I have come to the conclusion that one sure sign that a position is sensible is that you disagree with it. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
Hardly immoral. It is capitalism at its finest. Voting with the wallet, the American way. And I'm NOT looking to kill the company, simply making sure they stop outsourcing. As soon as they do, I will once again give them my business. By the way, I already have put this plan in motion. I wanted to buy a new game, which I would normally have bought from Best Buy. This purchase will not be made. That's fifty bucks they lost already. Typically a large part of my Christmas shopping is done there as well. Not this year. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
You got it, Chris. Outsourcing is NOT inevitable. It can be stopped, simply by proving it is uneconomical. And since we know that the "savings" companies are seeing is actually quite negligible (if it exists at all) then it's really easy to make it uneconomical by using our buying power. But if we don't, if we listen to the outsourcing apologists like those who inhabit this forum, then of course we will see outsourcing take over. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if instead Americans stand up and get counted, we can do a lot. In my state, we just reversed the vote on an issue that the state legislature was about to pass overwhelmingly. The bill would provide driver's licenses to illegal aliens, and was set to fly through the legislature. But the citizens of Illinois got pretty upset about the idea and started writing and faxing their congressional representatives, and a week later the bill was soundly defeated. One proponent of the bill even went so far as to exhort his colleagues to "not pander to their constituents". Get that? "Pander" to the constituents? See, that's the problem. Many elected politicians have forgotten just who they serve. Political action groups are in their faces every day, and they forget that they actually get elected by us. But when enough people write letters and faxes and make phone calls, they remember. It's a little different with corporations. They don't usually respond as readily to public pressure. Instead, they respond to the simplest of motives: greed. And it's real easy to hit them where it hurts - simply stop buying their products. For every item I typically purchase at Best Buy, there are at least three other places I can do business. And while I prefer the convenience of Best Buy, it's more important that I do my part, no matter how small, to promote those companies that still put Americans first. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
I would support a boycott, if I thought that there would be any impact. But I think that a boycott for this purpose would be negligible, and perhaps counter-productive. IMO There are legitimate weapons against outsourcing:- [*]Convincing congress to remove the tax breaks that corporations get for foreign outsourcing practices.[*]Making it known to the public the firms that are outsourcing workers. Public comanies have a vampire-like aversion to the light.[*]Making shareholders aware that in at least 25% of all outsourcing efforts, a company will actually lose money in the deal.[*]Publicizing that foreign outsourcing is a losing deal before the deal is made. Currently CEOs are just listening to outsourcing salespeople, and in many cases are not aware of the downside.[*]Publicizing the decimation of University Computer Science departments, and how this affects overall American security, and capability in the long run.[/list]Dave
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It's not about competition, folks...
David: "I would support a boycott, if I thought that there would be any impact. But I think that a boycott for this purpose would be negligible, and perhaps counter-productive." Why? Let's say they're outsourcing 1000 jobs. Let's in turn be VERY generous and say they're saving 40,000 a head (we of course know that this is nothing like the truth, but just for argument's sake). That's 40,000,000 dollars. If 100,000 people (that's only 2000 people per state) choose not to buy a few hundred dollars worth of goods from Best Buy in a given year, then you've completely gutted their cost savings. Yeah, I know there's revenue vs. profit (we can talk about inventory costs), but even those numbers get beat if we're talking about camcorders, laptops and TVs. And the truth of the matter is that after costs and overruns and delays, they'll be lucky to save a few million dollars. That's just 1000 big screen TVs, or a couple of thousand laptops. Not to mention the fact that these dollars are going to competitors. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
Joe Pluta wrote: If 100,000 people (that's only 2000 people per state) choose not to buy a few hundred dollars worth of goods from Best Buy in a given year, then you've completely gutted their cost savings. I just don't see those numbers happening. OTOH If there is a publicized groundswell I would be delighted to join in. OTOOH, I have a mental picture of a rainy day with a lonely ignored picketer. OTOOOH I need both hands to count the major electronic store chains that have gone out of business all on their own in the last few years. IMO An ineffective campaign without enough people will actually boomerang by giving the target name recognition, and increased sales. DaveComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
"IMO An ineffective campaign without enough people will actually boomerang by giving the target name recognition, and increased sales." IMO you're simply looking for excuses to not do anything. To me, it's better to try and fail than not to try at all. And of course, if everyone waits for someone else, nobody will do anything. In any event, if you're not willing to try, then don't bother complaining. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
How dare you Joe. You, of all people should know that I have never sat idly by on important issues, and in terms of outsourcing, indeed, I have been active, and I think (and I hope) that you realize that. In terms of activity, I have assessed that a boycott may not be appropriate. Recriminations will not convince me otherwise. ad hominym. DaveComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
"How dare you Joe." David, you're the last person who should complain about personal criticism in these forums. You're never one to shy away from expressing your opinion of others' actions, so don't get your back up when I express my opinion of yours. Sauce for the goose, and all that. I think your assessment that a boycott will increase sales is specious and is in fact dangerous. It provides an excuse to those who want the convenience of Best Buy, but still want to complain about the unfairness of it all. That way they can say they have been active while in fact not doing anything at all. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but I am saying that your position is unsupported and needlessly negative. If you don't want to boycott, fine, but don't slam those who find it appropriate with unsupported arguments about publicity and increased sales. And maybe even offer some alternative solution, eh? Anyway, no offense meant, and I hope you take it in the spirit given: trying to find active steps to take to combat this problem. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
The American Way - buy a product based on the value of your $$$. People who do otherwise deserved to be in the iron curtain. No options, No Choice, No Freedom. Boycott is a counter-productive exercise and American consumers are wise buyers who will not take this route. What will happen then to the fine men and women manning the Best Buy stores day in and day out? You penalize them...RIGHT ? And these are the people who will be affected most if we behave like irresponsible ordinary JOEs.Comment
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It's not about competition, folks...
[laughing!] You're a funny, funny man. All of a sudden you're worried about American workers! Except you don't seem to give a damn about the nearly 1000 workers who will be put out on the street. The integrity of your position has now been clearly defined. JoeComment
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It's not about competition, folks...
Joe, I spent over $300 at Best Buy on Sunday. I also vote with my dollars. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Joe Pluta"Comment
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