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It's not about competition, folks...

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  • #76
    It's not about competition, folks...

    I commented on what was reported: "And the company says it might dissolve its information technology department and use an outside company instead. About 900 IT jobs could be affected." Where have you read that the jobs will be absorbed? Are you certain it will be EDS or Accenture? Because Best Buy changes its story often. "Best Buy may be looking to outsource more of its IT operations, sources say. Accenture is being considered for the contract, according to the sources. No details were available about which IT operations might be involved in such a deal. A Best Buy spokesperson wouldn't confirm or deny the deal." http://www.informationweek.com/story...cleID=18401086 On March 19th Best Buy wouldn't confirm nor deny the rumors. And as recently as March 27th, Best Buy was flatly denying it: "The company also denied that it would cut an undisclosed number of technology and call center employees with their duties assumed by another company, Accenture. No agreement has been signed, the company said." http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breakin...5504-7906r.htm And then suddenly, the news comes out on March 31st that they are cutting jobs. Four days after denying it. What else might they be less than forthcoming about? Perhaps about where the jobs will go? Because Best Buy has been known to use Indian companies for outsourcing, going so far as to name Wipro as its "premier information systems partner" in 2002. So exactly what misinformation has been had? They are laying off 900 workers. Nearly 1000 programmers will be out on the street, for no reason other than adding a few cents to the earnings per share. I didn't misrepresent that. And putting people out of work when business is booming just to make a few extra bucks is a bad idea; bad enough for me to stop patronizing the store. Maybe you're upset about my intimation that the jobs could go to India. I didn't say they WOULD, but I said they would "in all likelihood" be offshored to India, and I still believe that based on Best Buy's long relationship with Indian bodyshops such as Wipro and Tata. Loss of jobs in Minnesota rarely means more employment elsewhere in the United States these days. Yet, you state as fact that this will result in more jobs in "Texas or Illinois". Where is your proof that the jobs lost will be "absorbed" by EDS, or that EDS is even the company getting the contract? It could be Accenture. Or it could be Wipro, at which point we know there will be no hiring in America. And even if EDS or Accenture gets the job, it's just as likely that they'll increase staff using offshore workers as onshore workers. I've seen nothing to indicate that either company would be willing to take on the salary burden of 900 American programmers. Where is your proof? And that is more to the point: my statements are simply opinions based on reports from news sources. I've presented them as such, and I provide links to my sources of information and then express my opinion; you are free to make up your own mind. You, however, are making statement of fact with no corroborative information. Additionally, your tone is consistently antagonistic and uncivil. If you expect me to respond to any more of your comments, you'll need to post as a professional. Act civilly and start providing proof to your statements. Otherwise, don't expect responses. Joe

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    • #77
      It's not about competition, folks...

      Joe said: "Personally, I think the demands of Wall Street are often diametrically opposed to what is good for the American worker." This is exactly right. And it's because the regulations of the SEC require public companies to do what is best for the shareholder not the employee. This is why I work for private companies. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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      • #78
        It's not about competition, folks...

        Chris, What is an HH Gregg? chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Chris Ringer" wrote in message news:6aea2e89.74@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Well, the real question is where are you located? Why is Circuit City closing doors there? Surely your local newspaper has written about this. Perhaps they are closing doors because their outsourcing projects failed. Just tell me the name of your city (and country?) and maybe I can do a google search or call their customer relations and tell you why! > > HH Gregg is about 5 miles from me, an easy drive. Best Buy is closer but... > > Have you heard of the internet? It allows you to buy things online. Ask Mark Cuban. He bought a $40 million dollar jet online. Or do you need to shop and have the product on the same day? > > Chris

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        • #79
          It's not about competition, folks...

          Joe said: "I commented on what was reported" And that seems to be the problem with many opinions these days. We BELIEVE what is reported. I listen to NPR (National Propaganda Radio) periodically not to get the news, but to get a laugh. Their news is so far left that it's a joke. So, just take every news source and discount it by about 50% and then you might have a valid news item. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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          • #80
            It's not about competition, folks...

            Susan said: "With middle class jobs leaving the country, there is less disposable income available" Boy, I don't see that in my area. When disposable money is tight weeknight restaurant fare is the first hit. Just try to get into a Chili's on a Tuesday night and it's a 30 minute wait. Same for almost any restaurant around. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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            • #81
              It's not about competition, folks...

              Chris said: "It is NOT my responsibility to ensure that every business that opens a store stays in business forever." Amen. 96% of all new businesses fail in the first 5 years. Imagine if the government were called in to try to prop them all up! chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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              • #82
                It's not about competition, folks...

                NPR is funny like that (as are many others). Yesterday after the Rice testimony, the commentator (Nina Totenburg, perhaps?) just matter-of-factly referred to Richard Clarke as a "whistleblower". Yeah, right. More like hornblower.

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                • #83
                  It's not about competition, folks...

                  I think this is interesting: http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news...le.php/3338121

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                  • #84
                    It's not about competition, folks...

                    I was listening to NPR the other day after Richard Clark testified. They gave snippets of Clark's testimony. Then they gave a report stating that Clark had said things a year ago that contradicted his current testimony. Hey, I thought, NPR's giving both sides of the story, maybe they've turned a corner. Alas, later during the dreaded "pledge break" the local station was giving out copies of Clark's book with a $75 donation. Yikes! chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "B_Sing" wrote in message news:6aea2e89.83@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > NPR is funny like that (as are many others). Yesterday after the Rice testimony, the commentator (Nina Totenburg, perhaps?) just matter-of-factly referred to Richard Clarke as a "whistleblower". Yeah, right. More like hornblower.

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                    • #85
                      It's not about competition, folks...

                      Joe, For your eyes only: "The Wall Street Journal recently reported that an internal Best Buy memo indicated that Accenture Ltd. is preparing to assume management of some of the company's IT services and telephone call centers by June 1. The memo stated that Best Buy anticipates that a significant percentage of IT associates will be offered positions with Accenture, according to the Journal" This is dated April 5, If you want to dig for more, I suggest you get a subscription of the WS Journal to keep you abreast of the latest development. What you have is history ( dated March ), a lot of things have transpired by then. Your figure of 900 programmers is absolutely wrong. If they have that much programmers with their size of around 20B per annum sales, then I think they have so much fat in I.T. programming staff to get rid off. I'll bet my last shirt, they only have less than 200 programmers, which I'm sure will be absorbed. I suggest that you stop insinuating based on unreliable sources. Again you made wrong ASSUMPTIONS...WIPRO, INDIA, TATA... This is just a figment of your wild imagination. Wake-up and stop dreaming. Personally, I don't like your [laugh]...[laugh] antics too.

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                      • #86
                        It's not about competition, folks...

                        Your numbers make no sense. I said 900 IT staffers, based on the report I quoted at the beginning. That number is perfectly reasonable. Even at 40K per year, the total is less than 1% of their operating expenses. That's hardly an overwhelming number. As to the supposed WSJ report above, it's based on old news. Your dates are inaccurate. http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantoni...2/daily39.html I already reported this. Best Buy then denied any layoffs according to a report on the 27th. As far as I'm concerned, based on the misinformation I quoted in earlier posts it would require an overwhelming leap of faith to take any Best Buy statements at face value. Anyway, this conversation has lost all semblance of productivity. I simply said Best Buy are jerks for outsourcing IT staff during a time when they are making record profits. I think it's a stupid, shortsighted move and it is despicable enough to me that I will take my business elsewhere. You don't like it? That's your own opinion. I can't make you share my point of view. But one thing I can do is to avoid further interaction with someone who acts unprofessionally and disrespectfully. Phrases like "Wake-up and stop dreaming" are not acceptable, and I will not tolerate them, especially from someone who uses a pseudonym. Good day. Joe

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                        • #87
                          It's not about competition, folks...

                          Joe, You questioned my 900 programmers figure. Who wrote this statements then: "And even if EDS or Accenture gets the job, it's just as likely that they'll increase staff using offshore workers as onshore workers. I've seen nothing to indicate that either company would be willing to take on the salary burden of 900 American programmers. Where is your proof?" I suggest before you put anything into writing, you should proof-read it first for it will boomerang on you. Remember I jump into this thread because of my belief that "BOYCOTT" is not good for America and all I've got is your "laugh" and history lesson. Stick to the issues without sarcasm, and I will put into the table my honest and unbiased 2 cents without any prejudice.

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                          • #88
                            It's not about competition, folks...

                            Kumar, you still have not provided any proof of any statement you have made, you simply argue with mine. This is unacceptable behavior. Expect no further responses. Joe

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                            • #89
                              It's not about competition, folks...

                              We had 800+ IT staff in a $24B wholesaling operation, and 400+ IT staff in a $10B retail operation, so I agree Joe the IT staffing is not out of line at all. A few days after I read this thread I got around to reading the ComputerWorld article and saw that the CIO resigned along with the outsourcing announcement. Now he could just be unhappy, but in my opinion outsourcing is primarily driven by deep dissatisfaction with IT, and I think they unloaded the operation as a turkey. I have no idea what kind of IT operation it was (mainframe, Unix, etc.) Of course when they unload to a big consulting firm the big consulting firms are shipping work overseas, but that only reflects in the pricing they bid against others for the contract, who probably all were counting on having work done as cheaply as possible. Bottom line, I doubt Best Buy has a clue who is actually doing the work. We have seen this outsourcing bringing it back inhouse dance for decades, either way the argument made to save costs. This time though it's not American IT staff inhouse or working for a consultant, so the outsourcers may finally be able to be cheaper than inhouse using overseas staff, I don't know. It's hard to ever picture EDS, Anderson, or IBM as cost effective even using free labor. rd

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                              • #90
                                It's not about competition, folks...

                                Joe, Dave400 posted the site INFOWEEK and COMPUTERWORLD earlier on this thread not me, I simply read the links. The article only confirm what is written by the WS Journal. It was dated April 5. The ff. statements is only a portion of ONE of these articles. "The Wall Street Journal recently reported that an internal Best Buy memo indicated that Accenture Ltd. is preparing to assume management of some of the company's IT services and telephone call centers by June 1. The memo stated that Best Buy anticipates that a significant percentage of IT associates will be offered positions with Accenture, according to the Journal" You can go to the sites and confirm it, I'm sure everyone on this thread have visited these sites already. In fact others made some comments already regarding the article.

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