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  • #16
    Global Sentiments

    Daniel said: "The point I'm trying to make is that by refusing to understand the the social/political/economic situation that is producing the extreme frustration and anger that is manifesting itself as terrorism, we are doomed to spend the rest of our existence with more and more terrorists coming out of the woodwork. Trying to just hunt them down will only produce more." I think you might be a little naive here. I firmly believe that there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent terrorists from coming out of the woodwork. There will always be terrorsist just as there will always be ants. It's a mental condition that will never be appeased. Just as there will always be mass murderers, rapists and drug dealers. To think otherwise is silly. Daniel also said: "In this country we have stated our resolve to exterminate terrorism. What's makes you think they have any less resolve in their goals?" As it has been since the beginning of time. Hatred and war will persist. Daniel claims: "Their basic goal is to get the people of the U.S. to get interested in what our own government is doing in our names, and to realize that it is unfair for us to continually mess with their countries." I believe that terrorists are psychopaths who enjoy gaining attention for themselves. It's like an arsonist. They love the attention it brings, even if it causes them death in the process. They have weak minds and are easily brainwashed into thinking this attention is for some good. I do NOT believe they are trying to get my attention to change my government. If that is truely their mission, as you state, then you can see by my reaction it's not working and likely will never work. You're trying to claim that their mission is benevolent. I believe it is not. They're simply crazed. They are no more benevolent than the ants that invade my house. And, like the ants, we will never rid our planet of them. We can only hope to rid our local sphere of them. Daniel said: "Their portion of the world has been in turmoil for centuries," You'd think after all these millenium they'd learn what civilization is all about. Yet they keep bumbling on, relying on religion to control the masses and keep them opressed. Daniel claimed: "The terrorists are using horrible evil methods to try get across a message that all the people in that region want to get across." The next thing I expect to hear is that the local rapist is trying hard to tell me that the school system did terrible things to him and raping women is his way of bringing it to my attention. Daniel said: "The majority of them don't want to get the message across using terrorism," I simply don't belive that. Terrorism is like extreme sports. It's a rush. To be able to put the hurt on Goliath must be a very big adrenalin high. If they channelled this energy into something constructive they could achieve amazing things. Daniel said: "but they want the message to get across." The only message I'm receiving is that they are uncivilized barbarians that love to kill for the thrill of it. They certainly don't embrace the sancity of life. Until they do I won't embrace them. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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    • #17
      Global Sentiments

      I know that I got a few emails from my international readers that suggested that I might be baised against India and/or Indians. I thought I was pretty clear in my statements that I has no problems with those who hold visas, or who perform the offshore services; my beef is with those who abuse policies in order to displace American workers. I thought I went out of my way to be even-handed, but some of the incredible hatred I got in return confounded me. And then I read some things recently that just floored me. You can read them yourself in the following URL: http://saloon.javaranch.com/cgi-bin/...&f=32&t=005028 This is a typical geo-political discussion over there, initially focusing on "who's next" in the deposed dictator sweepstakes, and chatting about Mugabe and Karimov, but somewhere about the 11th message, a gentleman with a definitely Indian sounding name posts the following: "Personally i support Saddam. Actually majority of indians support him...coz he isnt a terroist, it is America who made the world call him so. America is just making way for its hidden agenda...i.e. OIL in Iraq. If it is that concerned abt world peace and terroism, dont u think it should hav helped India first which is facing terroism since last 40-50 years? " I was floored. I continued to read others, each from a different person, all folks from India: "Sad to say, but the above statement truly reflects the majority Indian sentiment." "For our other (non-Indian) friends on this forum, let me give you my take on the basis of anti-american sentiment in India. During the cold war era, USSR was supporting India, esp. in the Indo-pak rivalry. Infact, America probabley started supporting Pakistan to contain support for USSR in that region. And most of us in India grew up being taught that USSR was all good and America was all bad, that Stalin and Lenin were heros, and that people in USSR lived ideal lives." "Hate would be a much exaggerated word to define the emotion it is more kind of mistrust." These are excerpts, and in the interests of full disclosure, there were some pro-American (or at least less anti-American) sentiments expressed as well. But the overwhelming sense I got was that there are a large number of people in India who mistrust and/or hate America. I'd really want to hear from some other folks from India regarding this particular issue. If American companies are thinking of sending sensitive data and mission critical systems support over to India, it's probably important to know what those people think of you and your country. Joe

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      • #18
        Global Sentiments

        OK. I give up. Half of your responses simply responded to me as if I had an attitude that I never stated. The other half just re-stated that you refuse to care what people in other parts of the world think. You've just exhibited the same arrogance I see in many people in the U.S. who think we can get away with ignoring the rest of the world and kill those that do something we don't like. Then when you start implying that what I am saying is like defending a rapist, it's obvious that you are not listening. I will not try to state my opinion any more, But I would like to point out some of the errors in how you reacted to me: Chuck said: "I think you might be a little naive here. I firmly believe that there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent terrorists from coming out of the woodwork" I never said "prevent". See disclaimer #3 (the second "3", sorry I had two number 3's) I specifically said that it would not eliminate it. As carefully as I stated that, you chose to read it the way you wanted to react to it. Not taking the time to try to understand what I said caused you to call me "naive" and "silly". If, indeed I had said what you seem to think I said, I'd agree with you that I'm naive and silly. But, now instead of making a good point, you only reveal that you don't read. You just skim until you see something you can respond to with a cute phrase. *I* think it's a bit naive to think we can simply stamp out terrorism by force (darn I SAID I was going to try not to state my opinions...) I won't take the rest of your responses to what I said on a case by case basis, because the majority of the rest of your reaction shows that you chose to ignore the wording where I said "terrorists" at some times, but at other times use phrases like "people in that region", "people in the mid-east". I thought I was fairly clear that I think the large majority of the people there are reasonable, but have problems with us. And that there is a small group that seems to think terrorism is the way to go (a group which I, and most people in the middle east, abhor). Either you totally missed what I was saying, or you are really so blind and ignorant as to think all Muslims are terrorists. (Sorry, I'm reacting like you would, here.) Your responses act as if I said it would solve the problem. If you will read it again, you'll notice that very little is said with out a "many", "most", "just", or other qualifiers that shows I did not think anything was absolute. See the second disclaimer #3 again. Yes, if you choose to, you can read it that I think terrorists have nothing but noble thoughts. I think most people reading it would not arrive at that conclusion. Especially if they had read any of my other posts on this subject. However, reading it again myself, it wouldn't surprise me if someone read it and asked for clarification, because some of it is not worded carefully to make absolutely sure that that point is gotten across in EVERY sentence. (This, by-the-way, is me trying to be objective and re-read my own post to try to see if it's reasonable to interpret it in a way other than what I meant. It could be interpreted different, but I think only by someone who is choosing to interpret it for their own ends instead of trying to understand what I meant.) Anyway, as I said, I give up. Having to carefully write something with all the disclaimers (that you don't read) and having to worry about exact phrasing (since you jump on individual phrases instead of trying to understand the overall message) is making it way too difficult to discuss anything with you. Thanks for making me think, though.

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        • #19
          Global Sentiments

          Daniel said: "The other half just re-stated that you refuse to care what people in other parts of the world think." I stated nothing of the kind. I DID state that I care nothing about what TERRORISTS think. I do believe that terrorists are a small part of the world's population. There is simply nothing anyone can do to ever change a terrorist's mind. If the U.S. wasn't there for them to hate then they'd hate Isreal. If Isreal wasn't there they'd hate European countries. If Europe wasn't there they'd hate Iran. If Iran wasn't there they'd pour their energies on other Arab countries. They hate for the sake of hating. I can't change that, you can't change that. Trying to understand and embrace that will change nothing, they'll still hate. Daniel said: "You've just exhibited the same arrogance I see in many people in the U.S. who think we can get away with ignoring the rest of the world and kill those that do something we don't like." Again putting words into my mouth. Daniel stated: "Then when you start implying that what I am saying is like defending a rapist, it's obvious that you are not listening." If you are defending a terrorst then you understand me correctly. A terrorist is no better than a rapist. In fact, they're worse. Daniel said: "I thought I was fairly clear that I think the large majority of the people there are reasonable, but have problems with us." Ok, maybe I misread your posts. I thought you were stating that their problem wasn't with "us" but the U.S. government. Which is it? chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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