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  • #16
    Outsourced Peaches

    How many Chinese are there? Imagine the enemy 'we' will make if we cut off the flow of cash to China that we have flowing there now. Just one of my anxieties.

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    • #17
      Outsourced Peaches

      "That obligation has caused public corporations to see a horizon only in terms of 3 months. They are literally measured by each quarterly return and report to the SEC." Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the biggest problems today, along with the ability to hide profit-skimming. The recent vote by HP shareholders demanding the expensing of stock options may be the first step towards the end of that particular practice as well. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4556136/ Joe

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      • #18
        Outsourced Peaches

        Chuck, Toyota has a plant in my home town of about 110000. Cambridge, Ontario Canada. They employ about 4000 people directly and most of the city business (steel, etc) supplies the plant, which accounts for many more jobs. This type of situation is repeated in many cities across Canada and US. Toyota is probably the most giving company in the community. Sports, and other charitable organizations. I have a Toyota in my garage, made by most of my neighbors. Thanks Dave

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        • #19
          Outsourced Peaches

          I bought one of the first Tundra's made in that foriegn state of Indiana. I have a GMC made in domestic state of ? Canada or Mexico?

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          • #20
            Outsourced Peaches

            Let me say firstly that I believe that stock options should be expensed. OTOH at what cost? This is the problem that has plagued regulators attempting to promote this as a standard. The value of a share of stock may be accrued at the point the option is granted, but then again there is the value of the same share (or shares in case of splits) at the point of redemption. The above is an over-simplification. In point of fact, valuation of options are a nightmare waiting to be dreamed. There are no set standards for valuation at present, and those companies that do expense the options do so at points in time most beneficial to the company. There is much potential for problems here too. Dave

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            • #21
              Outsourced Peaches

              David said: "Toyota has a plant in my home town of about 110000. Cambridge, Ontario Canada. They employ about 4000 people directly and most of the city business (steel, etc) supplies the plant, which accounts for many more jobs. This type of situation is repeated in many cities across Canada and US." Ah, yes, but where do the profits go? Back to Japan. What do they do with those profits? Buy U.S. land. Most of Hawaii and a lot of Los Angeles is owned by foreign companies where they lured us by their apparent benevolence only to gobble us up. I'm surprised you fall for this trap! Yet, in Japan foreign ownership of land is illegal. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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              • #22
                Outsourced Peaches

                Each time you report company books, you revaluate all vested options and the difference between the current stock price and the option price is the options liability. The difference between this period's options liability and last period's is recorded as either income or expense. A second category is money lost through exercise of options. When an option is exercised, the expense is the difference between the stock price and the option price at the time of exercise. When an option is exercised, it drops out of the option liability pool, so exercising tends to cancel itself, which is as it should be; the exercise of an option does not actually change the net worth of the company. It is the issuance and the corresponding liability that actually reduces a company's flexibility. Joe

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                • #23
                  Outsourced Peaches

                  This is an excellent answer. OTOH there must be something to the complications, as this is the reason that corporations are giving to congress as to why options should not be expensed. I'm not taking their side, mind you, but I do listen to the reasons. The accounting lobbyists do not curry as much political favor as they did just a few years ago. Yet neither FASB nor congress has implemented a standard, or a recomendation as to how this should be accomplished. Dave

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                  • #24
                    Outsourced Peaches

                    "OTOH there must be something to the complications, as this is the reason that corporations are giving to congress as to why options should not be expensed." The reason anyone wants things complicated is so that they can be used to fleece the less enlightened. It's really that simple. Where are things most complicated? Taxes, insurance and health care. Each of these is an area where things could be greatly simplified, but instead are getting more complex every year. And in so doing, "the little guy" is getting screwed, because he doesn't have a chance of figuring out how the system works. Options expenses are so very simple to accrue, and it is that stark simplicity which scares the hell out of the corporate accountants. Joe

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                    • #25
                      Outsourced Peaches

                      I picked up a new clear plastic bottle of sliced Dole peaches in the grocery store the other day. When I got them home I noticed it said "packed in Thailand" on the label. This got my interest. I looked closer and saw in very small print on the plastic "Peaches from China". If it is now cheaper to grow peaches in China, pack them in Thailand, and ship them to U.S. what chance does any industry have in the U.S.? My company used to make lamps in the U.S. See if you can find a lamp anywhere that isn't made in China now. When we no longer make anything in this country, what country will have complete economic power and control over us? China is a communist country still last I heard. I don't know how a "global economy" is exactly suppose to work, but if you don't make anything and your citizens don't have jobs--isn't that kind of like a third world country?

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                      • #26
                        Outsourced Peaches

                        Apparently, the National Venture Capital Association (www.nvca.org) doesn't agree that expensing options is simple. In this press release, they spell out why, and they say that the rules issued just today by the FASB will hurt small biz (aka "the little guy"), the engine of the economy. "Stock options have played an integral role in fostering entrepreneurship in America, setting the country apart from developed nations. Start-up companies are dependent on employee stock options because in their early stage of development they do not have the financial resources to offer competitive compensation packages. Stock options offer the potential to be rewarded for hard work and risk taking. By requiring the expensing of options, FASB is asking small companies to choose between attracting talent or showing positive net income both of which are key drivers in the ultimate success of the organization. " I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on this, because reading the posts here and that press release is the extent of my "research" to date, but I do agree with the principle that small biz needs to be able to attract those with talent and entreprenurial spirit. Brian

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