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I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

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  • #16
    I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

    Dave asked: "I presume you were trying to be funny rather than rude ?" No, not trying to be funny. Just trying to point out that often people use the "everyone I know" argument when they try to make their point. Unfortunately, what they do is immediately eliminate credibility. Dave also said: "Each site I have been at over the last 18 months has migrated or started migration to Linux based email servers." Ok, we're talking local sphere of experience. My local sphere of experience has no Linux email familiarity. However, the real facts are that Exchange and Domino each have about 40% of the market of installed email servers. The remaining 20% is divided among many pieces including Unix, Linux, et al. I don't disagree that Linux is growing, but the figures seem to point out out that not "everyone" is doing it. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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    • #17
      I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

      Dave, If speaking frankly is rude, then I'll accept that characterization. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "dave400" wrote in message news:6aec5ef3.16@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > You sound like a teenage girl who overuses the phrase, "but dad, everyone's doing it." > > I presume you were trying to be funny rather than rude ? > > > You know me. My company has zero Linux machines. So much for "everyone" you know! > Actually I would not say I know you. But let me be more explicit for you ! Each site I have been at over the last 18 months has migrated or started migration to Linux based email servers. Everything I have read shows it to be a lower cost option than Exchange and there are a number of sites that have reported their servers to be more reliable. > > But different sites have different factors. My question is have you performed a cost benefit analysis and made an informed decision to stay with Exchange. If so where did you see Exchange having a cost advantage and a reliability advantge. Are there any advanced features of exchange that has locked you in from migration ?

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      • #18
        I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

        A wiser man than me once said "Anyone who says 'Everybody is doing it' is a person who is doing it". Dave

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        • #19
          I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

          Chuck: If speaking frankly is rude, then I'll accept that characterization. ----- No, Chuck, comparing an adult's actions to those of a teenaged girl is rude. It's an unnecessary and puerile choice of words, but you seem to think it's acceptable behavior. It is not. Joe

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          • #20
            I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

            Thanks for expressing, what seems to me, a winning concept.

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            • #21
              I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

              Thanks! It's really just common sense, something that sorta disappeared in our industry in the late 90's, and is only now starting to creep back in. Y2K and DOT.COM are gone and people have been burned a few times by the new buzzword of the day. The idea that IT decisions can be made based on marketing hype are hopefully behind us. More and more I see people starting to return to the type of analysis and design that fueled the REAL growth years, from the 70's to the 90's. People are deciding that combinations of technologies work, and that they don't have to throw out all their old code just to take advantage of some new darling of the industry. In fact, it's becoming pretty clear that any technology that isn't BACKWARDS compatbile is unlikely to be FORWARDS compatible either - meaning it may not even be around by the time the product is ready to roll out. No, I see more and more people hitching up their belts, rolling up their sleeves, and going back to LEARNING how the stuff works. Because really, the concept of client/server development really isn't that hard. In fact, with today's tools, it's actually quite easy. My new book, WDSC: Step by Step, comes out shortly, and it walks you through all the steps. It's only a few dozen lines of code - JSP, Java and RPG combined - to get a working application up and running. Joe

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              • #22
                I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                If speaking frankly is rude, then I'll accept that characterization. Chuck, Sadly I think your lack of ability to expess yourself in a civil tone is your excuse for bad manners. I originally posted: Everyone I know has or is migrating to Linux based mail servers. Cheaper, faster and more reliable. Therefore your flipant response of "Ok, we're talking local sphere of experience." is 100% correct. I take it from your response you have not performed any assesment of for your organization. So there is nothing to discuss, you are simply following the market movement. I am not suggesting that is bad, but it does limit the value in a discussion over the decision.

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                • #23
                  I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                  Now that is funny...

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                  • #24
                    I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                    Chuck said, "No, not trying to be funny. Just trying to point out that often people use the "everyone I know" argument when they try to make their point. Unfortunately, what they do is immediately eliminate credibility." I say, Unfortunately, some try to eliminate other's credibility, thinking that is the purpose of this forum. In my view, I come hear to learn from everyone, even Chuck, because I can choose which concepts make sense for me to use and which not to. What I don't like is some trying to shut others out. No one here is right all the time. But I fear that many views and concepts that I personally would like to see, don't get posted, because of the childish putdowns that occur from time to time. I can dig most technical solutions out of the manuals or the books that I buy. I come here to get the 'feel' of what is going on. I fear that some of what I could use is being held back. Don't hold back. If we get out the news of what is happening where you are at, we promote what some of us come hear to find, Midrange solutions on AS/400's. And that puts more money in the predefined 'some/our' pockets.

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                    • #25
                      I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                      Hold on a moment here. With the exception of OS/2, IBM has never provided me a technology that didn't work for a good, long time. Joe, I'm going to have to differ with you on you this one. A past employer of mine, with which I still do some consulting work, has been running their DCs with a client server system using OS/2 against an iSeries DB server. The result, 8 years and counting with minimal problems. I never had a problem with the OS/2 machines, meanwhile the tech services guys were reinstalling Win95, Win98, Win2000, WinXP, etc. on a bimonthly basis. The advantage I saw with OS/2 as a buisiness OS was that I didn't have to worry about someone walking in with whatever cool app. they found on the web and installing it, thereby neccesitating a reinstall of Windows because they stepped on a DLL. Just my $.02. Sean

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                      • #26
                        I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                        Sean said: "I never had a problem with the OS/2 machines" Our new PBX machine (well, 15 months old now) uses OS/2 for it's voice mail system. Sean also said: "The advantage I saw with OS/2 as a buisiness OS was that I didn't have to worry about someone walking in with whatever cool app. they found on the web and installing it, thereby neccesitating a reinstall of Windows because they stepped on a DLL." That shouldn't be an issue in a Win XP environment. We deploy XP in all our desktops. In our retail stores we actually have XP on customer facing kiosks. There's absolutely nothing a customer can do to that machine to harm it. The kiosks just run and run and run. Your solution with OS/2 was "security by lack of cool apps." Windows XP can be locked down tighter than a drum, it just takes some configuring which is all done from a technicians desktop. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                        • #27
                          I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                          ctibode, Point well made and accepted. I certainly don't want to shut anyone else out. However, my experience in this forum, being as limited as it is, there seems to be no one afraid to speak their mind. After all, the title of this newsgroup is "shooting the breeze." It appears, of course, that speaking MY mind is unacceptable. I tend only to "shoot down", as you put it, when opinions offered are so far to one side as to be humorous. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "ctibodoe" wrote in message news:6aec5ef3.25@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Chuck said, > "No, not trying to be funny. Just trying to point out that often people use the "everyone I know" argument when they try to make their point. Unfortunately, what they do is immediately eliminate credibility." > > I say, > Unfortunately, some try to eliminate other's credibility, thinking that is the purpose of this forum. > > In my view, I come hear to learn from everyone, even Chuck, because I can choose which concepts make sense for me to use and which not to. What I don't like is some trying to shut others out. No one here is right all the time. But I fear that many views and concepts that I personally would like to see, don't get posted, because of the childish putdowns that occur from time to time. > > I can dig most technical solutions out of the manuals or the books that I buy. > > I come here to get the 'feel' of what is going on. I fear that some of what I could use is being held back. Don't hold back. If we get out the news of what is happening where you are at, we promote what some of us come hear to find, Midrange solutions on AS/400's. And that puts more money in the predefined 'some/our' pockets.

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                          • #28
                            I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                            Sean, don't get me wrong, I loved OS/2. Everything that is good about Windows came from OS/2. Prior to that ill-fated collaboration, Windows was nothing more than a GUI on top of DOS. No, what killed me was that I made a strategic decision to go with OS/2 and then IBM pretty much dropped out of the desktop game - and this was at the point when OS/2 truly WAS a better Windows than Windows and a better DOS than DOS. We poisitoned our entire product line to use OS/2 because IBM promised us it would continue to fight for desktop market share. When they pulled the plug, I lost a lot clients and IBM lost credibility with me. From that point forward, I NEVER assumed that IBM would ever do anything they promised. Joe

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                            • #29
                              I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                              Chuck: speaking MY mind is unacceptable No, Chuck, being offensive is unacceptable, from anyone. You just do it more than anyone else. Joe

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                              • #30
                                I.T. or outsourcing, which is the greater evil?

                                Yes, IBM did pull the plug on OS/2, but they didn't pull it first. OS/2 was originally a collaboration between IBM and Microsoft. Originally released to coincide with the (revolutionary?) PS/2 hardware, it became very evident that OS/2 was released way before it was ready. Bill Gates must have smelled the coffee and pulled out of the arrangement just about the time that Windows release 3.0 went public. IBM got its act together with OS/2 about a year later, but by then it was too late. The bulk of the desktop had already been captured by Redmond, and no matter how good OS/2 became, it could not capture new market share, overcome MS lead, or erase OS/2 bad early reputation. Dave

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