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Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

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  • J.Pluta
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Nothing, really, Dave. RPG-CGI has numerous problems that make it unlikely to ever be as easy to implement and deploy as a properly architected JSP Model II application. Any shop that decides to go that way is unlikely to use my product anyway. On the other hand, a shop that is looking to deploy industry standard web applications will probably want to use my product rather than RPG-CGI. For example, you can't readily use CGI within a portal. ALl that being said, PSC/400 was designed to be UI independent, so I'm not too worried about what interface you choose to use. If you're doing it properly, you're not going to hack the CGI stuff into your existing applications, and if that's the case, you can still use PSC/400 to separate your layers. Joe

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  • M.Savino
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Gentlemen (and Ladies)... I started this thread in the hope of evoking a little lite hearted banter about the Corporate Scalywags who post those inane Internet Job Positions. But unfortunately, it has quickly degenerated into another Boooorrrrriiing (Zzzzzzzzzzzzz) Technical discussion. This is afterall, the Shooting the Breeze forum. So if you insist on jabbering about SERIOUS issues, start your own thread. Now..... Get Outta Here !! (Before I call the Internet Police) Mike

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  • David Abramowitz
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Joe, I have been saying for a long time now, that CGI could be made simpler, easier, faster, and more powerful. If that's accomplished what does it do to products similar to the one your company produces. Dave

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  • J.Pluta
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    I'm not sure I agree with your premise. In my mind, there are two very distinct types of IT requirements. There have always been and will always be the requirement for end user queries. These started out as manual calculations back in the day and grew first to printed reports and then to pie charts and finally to Excel-type inquiries. Nowadays, we use front-end web packages that generate pretty browsers pages from JDBC requests, but it's still the same thing. The other requirement is the hard part: getting that data into the database. And I don't see the query tools doing anything to diminish that load. Instead, as these query tools get better, the type of mundane tasks programmers have traditionally done will go away, leaving only the hard stuff. OLTP applications are where programmers like you and I will be spending their time, writing pricing routines and inventory movement and forecasting, or in real production work such as line scheduling and shop floor optimization -- all the stuff that computers are really good at. And what we're going to find is that RPG is the best language to write these routines in. It's easy to learn, robust and yet very close to the metal in terms of database access. It does all the things SQL doesn't do well, such as single-record access and value-sensitive processing. The hardest part will be to move to an environment where all business logic is hidden behind servers that speak via messages. Once that is done, though, all UI dependence disappears and the servers become lightning fast. And with true UI independence, you can have 5250 screens for heads-down data entry (data entry isn't going away anytime soon), JSP/servlet for web-based access, and XML for communication with .NET applications and Web Services. You will in effect have tiers of programmers for your tiered architecture, and the business logic tier will be hardcore RPG programmers sizzling through DB2, at least for the near future. SQL may catch up in some areas, but try to write a price lookup (or look at my upcoming article where I present a very simple business case of finding the GL account number for an order line). It will never happen. And Java just doesn't do decimal arithmetic. So it's RPG in the backroom, and whatever UI you want up front. Joe

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  • J.Pluta
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Chuck: Neither one of those have more than passing interest to me. We seldom code in RPG except to maintain legacy apps. RPG and native DB2 access is the fastest, most powerful development environment that exists. I'll be explaining in detail in my next couple of columns in MCMagOnline (the first one this Monday) that RPG and DB2 are key players in the future of the platform. My information comes from benchmarks (check out the IAAI website for more information), from empirical evidence (the guy they just put in charge of the iSeries comes from a successful $30 billion business unit), and from insiders such as Greg Hurlebaus, who wrote the IBM Developer's Roadmap. This malarky that RPG is old technology and DB2 is dead is just a bunch of marketing fluff meant to sell hardware and consulting, and I pity the folks who are buying it. The next generation of applications -- fast, powerful, UI independent applications that provide green screen access times in a web browser -- will be written primarily in RPG, and the folks who abandoned it are going to have a rough time trying to justify their decisions. Joe

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    cdr5000 said: Sorry to hear about your problems." Moving was not a problem! I loved the excitement and romance of a new location. It also taught me to embrace change, one of the things that has mede me successful in business. cdr5000 said: "I suppose you also walked 12 miles to school each day in freezing weather all year" Hah! I have only 2 requirements for where I live: No snow, No humidity. And, during high school I hitch hiked each way. Although that's something that can't be done today and why my kids got cars at age 16. cdr5000: "I bet it did not matter how many times you moved. The weather was always bad" Not a chance, I live in Southern California. Beautiful weather where my kids wear shorts and flip-flops every day to school. cdr5000: "Was supper a piece of bread by the candle? Were you given shoes or did you have to earn them? Did you have to use a dirty fingernail because pencils were too expensive?" Now you're just whining. cdr5000 said: "But, of course, you liked it. It built character" I believe, whole heartedly, what my idol John Wooden said: "Adversity does NOT build character, it REVEALS it." It appears I put you in an adverse thread, eh? cdr5000: "and differentiates you from the wussies like me who have a different idea of a quality life." There are a lot of things that differentiate me and the type of people you describe. cdr5000 asked: "Am I close?" As close as the next consulting job. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    cdr500 said: "You are sounding a little stale and like someone who is using their position to keep perceived threats at a distance." Huh? What the heck is this about? Shall I lie on the couch for you, Dr. Freud? cdr5000 said: "someone not coding in RPG/Free is employable or if someone not using service modules should be fired on sight." Neither one of those have more than passing interest to me. We seldom code in RPG except to maintain legacy apps. cdr5000 said: "Right now I've got books on Root Cause Analysis and FMEA on order from Amazon. You probably don't know what either of those are since they were not common back in the early 1990's when time started standing still in the AS/400 RPG world." Alas, I'm working full time and am enjoying doing it. Someday, if I decide to wind down I may endeavor to read such things also. However, I will probably have the next Clancy book on order instead. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    cdr5000 said: "Best wishes in your time warp. You can keep it." I love how one can determine how a shop runs by a few inferences in a post in a newsgroup. Do you always make such huge leaps? If so, I can understand your original post much better now. Of the 8 AS/400 programmers on my staff (I also have 9 exclusively .NET ASP programmers on my staff) 5 of the programmers seldom use RPG anymore. Almost their entire day is devoted to HTML and WebSmart. We never produce any "user facing" green screen programs any more. Green screen programs are unproductive for the user and unproductive for the programmer. I guess though, to you, that's old hat, eh? chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Mike said: "And I'm sure that you're Open-minded enough to accept that the candidate might do exactly the same thing to you? Turn around is fair play afterall." I would be disappointed if they didn't. The purpose of the interview is to project what life will be like after the interview. Mike said: "And just out of curiousity, when you're done antagonizing them, how do you spend the other 5 minutes of the Interview ?? " You're wrong, it may be as much as 10 minutes! ;-) chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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  • David Abramowitz
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    My $.02 on Visio: This shop only provided the standard version. I've been using it about two years, and while I find it easy, I can see how more advanced features could take a while to use efficiently. Dave

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  • M.Savino
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Chuck Said "During an interview I will purposely put the candidate in an antagonistic position ...." And I thought that was a NATURAL Talent you had. And I'm sure that you're Open-minded enough to accept that the candidate might do exactly the same thing to you? Turn around is fair play afterall. And just out of curiousity, when you're done antagonizing them, how do you spend the other 5 minutes of the Interview ?? Mike

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  • dacust
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    To some of us old farts SDLC LU6.2 was how you configured a dial-up line. Switched-point-to-point. See the CRTLINSDLC command.. -dan

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    cdr5000 said: "When you are an independent consultant you are always looking for the next job." I'll be blunt, as always. (Not intended to flame, just to my point of view.) While I understand your point, I can't sympathize. You made a lifestyle choice when you became a consultant and either didn't understand the downside or are complaining about the downside now that it has hit you. I, like many of us, have been lured to the career as a consultant during many of the "boom" periods we've had over the last 30 years. But I could never get the positives to outweigh the negatives. Ultimately, I'm glad I never went the consultant route. cdr5000 said: "I have learned how easy it is to overestimate the recruiter" I agree. Two of the best jobs, including my current job, I've found by an ad in the L.A. Times. cdr5000 said: "I have had more than one discussion about technique with someone of extremely limited range. Not arguing, or attempting to change minds, or being knowingly controversial in any way. Just offering an opinion on a subject brought up by the other person can bring hostile reaction with some rigid types." Well, isn't that exactly what you want to find out in an interview? After all, not only are they interviewing you, but you're interviewing them. It'd be a shame if this came to light only AFTER you were on the job. cdr5000 said: "Yes, California travel times are unusually long. This is why I do not live there." I gave isolated examples to show that many will do what is necessary to earn a good income. My commute is more typical. Less than 30 minutes. Do you have info that says all Cali commutes are long? Or is this just NBC Nightly News rhetoric being regurtitated? cdr5000 said: "The California quality of life with respect to average drive time is very poor. Wouldn't be caught dead there." I think that is a mis-statement. I have 7 programmers, all but one commutes less than 20 minutes. One has a commute of zero as she works from her living room in Denver. It's very common for a California AS/400 senior programmer/analyst to be near or over 6 figures in salary. Also not uncommon to have more than half a million dollars in equity in a home. Pretty good return if you ask me. cdr5000 said: "My priorities are different now. On the expressways around here, 10 miles can add an easy 1/2 hour each way during a busy rush hour. I don't live to sleep, drive, and work only." So, it sounds like you've severly limited your options and want to vent that there's nothing available? When you're winding down, as you put it, then you must expect to get a limited sized pool in which to swim. I lived in 19 places while growing up. While I don't recommend this to anyone the one thing my dad taught me by example is that you go where the work leads you or you whither and die. This is especially true the further up the pyramid you go. He never wound down until he retired at 68. I hope I never dislike my career or have health problems that cause me to wind down. I'm over 50 and still love getting up in the morning and going to work. Hopefully, that'll never change. cdr5000 asked: "Are you implying that you can not differentiate between an AS/400 programmer who can work the entire SDLC vs. the skills needed to create a Visio diagram?" SDLC skills are extremely niche and have less value in the world than Visio skills. We are an I.T. shop of 30 people and have absolutely no need for SDLC skills. If you're counting on SDLC skills then your pool is even smaller. While hard wiring 407 boards is a skill that may take a long time to learn it wouldn't be something I'd put on a resume. Same with SDLC skills. Putting skills on a resume that are very niche or outdated is a sure way for the resume to be passed over. I know, I evaluate resumes. cdr5000 said: "I also said that when it comes to new built-in functions, you just look up what is avaiable in the current release and use them. The interviewer looked at me like I was trying to con her." Again, I'd have to say that from your comments you should be glad to be away from that position. However, since I wasn't in the interview and didn't see if you waffled or looked uncertain so I don't know if the interviewer had a proper response or not. During an interview I will purposely put the candidate in an antagonistic postion in order to see how they react to stress or a surprising situation. It's the how the candidate reacts to the situation, not necessarily what they say, that I want to see. There can be a lot of stressfule situations in a programmer's life and the first time I see a reaction shouldn't be after I've hired them. cdr5000 asked: "I also got drilled on whether or not I could program subfiles (Is this still an issue? In 1992 I could understand this kind of question, but in 2004?)" About as relevant as SDLC skills. ;-) However, if a shop has lots of subfile programs that need maintaining or lots of SDLC stuff then it IS relevant. Personally, I couldn't code a subfile program from scratch without a manual (or cloning a program) if my life depended on it. My programmers don't either. That's what tools like Progen or WebSmart are for. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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  • dacust
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Chuck, Good points, all, but cdr500 DID say "a simple skill". I think I MAY have detected a little bitterness, or maybe it was just frustration, in cdr500's post, but not really that much. I, too, get annoyed with the ads that obviously were put in by HR personel rather than the technical people. Actually, I agree with all you said except possibly the "bitterness" point and the "simple skill" part. AND I agree with all cdr500 said, except you made a good point about Visio. -dan

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  • David Abramowitz
    replied
    Internet Job Postings -- Read 'em for a good Laugh

    Bentley.Pearson wrote: Maybe these posts are written for all the programmers who have PhD's from The Indian Technology Institute of Calcutta While I don't know about the maybe, it is a documented fact that many of the H1B agency/Body shops were tailoring resumes to fit ads. After a while employers caught on, and publicized identical resumes for a particular job, or the same person with different resumes (sprting entirely different skill sets) for different postings. This stunt even made the pro-H1B Wall Street Journal. Dave

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