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"The best wars are the ones that were avoided because brains were the weapon of choice." Which war was this? a student of history On second thought, even tho I haven't read the book, with out religous influence, we would all be animals, or maybe canibals because if it felt good.....
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
citbodoe asked: Which war was this? One could argue, that a ping pong game avoided war with China. There are many other examples where the most extreme measure was averted due to diplomacy and compromise. Unfortunately one approach to global history is to be seen as a series of physical conflicts, and the winners of such. A more detailed approach yields far more detail of negotiation than tribulation. Dave -
Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Another book comes to (my) mind: "Tea with Terrorists". Excellent read. So, if the argument can be made(and I could tend to agree that a game of ping pong averted war, see Forrest Gump movie), that if we had invited Osama to tea at the white house he would not have funded the 9/11 attacks? Remember that Al Gore laughed at Olver North when Col. North told Mr. Gore that Bin Laden was the "worst terriorist" known to us. I bet that "set off" Bin Laden, being made fun of by Americans. Maybe Clinton, Bush senior and for that matter Reagan should have invited him for tea. Yeah, right. Sometimes, war is the only solution. Imagine if our founding fathers had tried to have tea with the crown? Or, maybe a game of cricket? Diplomacy works, when all parties are intellegent "haves". When you try and negogiate with a "have not", you get your throat cut.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
I believe they did invite them to tea...in Boston...one hellava big cup. Not to disagree with your premise of have and have nots(I want to add some to it), I think this has merit, but we also need to remember adolph and neville sitting down to tea and maybe ping pong, so in my estimation I can't limit it to have and have nots. And I want some religion(preferably a kind one) on the side of the victors so I can enjoy my pursuit of happiness like I do now, the ones with no religion(how about USSR, China) aren't too likely to be in line with what I want. I think something that a lot of people are missing here, is that we aren't at war with IRAQ anymore. It appears to me that IRAQ is on our side for the moment.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Bentley asked: "if we had invited Osama to tea at the white house he would not have funded the 9/11 attacks?" Unfortunately, terrorists are like ants, you eliminate one and there are thousands more on the march. The one thing that terrorists want we can't give them: They want the influence and wealth of America to cease. Their goal is for Islam and the Arabs to be the center of the universe. They are jealous of the influence of the Western world and will do anything to try to topple it. Eliminating Osama will, IMO, have little impact on terrorist activities. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Maybe if we made a run on Exocets half on Ol'Europe would line up with us. To throw your have and have not back at ya, Ol' Europe is the have not here. Nothing we do while we have is going to get us anywhere. Are you implying that those hijackers on 911 had nothing and wanted to get something? ATTA was a have, he had more than me. These people aren't trying to improve themselves with material goods. They aren't trying to get Chevys and DVD's and tax shelters. They are evil. You fight evil or fall to it. (And I am not talking about the every day IRAQI who is looking to get his share of DVD's) I am talking about the evil fanatics, explain it any other way. Spartacus was leader with a bunch of have nots. He didn't want to murder all the Romans.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
cdr5000 said "Negotiating with leaders who would rather have their followers kill themselves and kill others is a waste of time." Exactly. They need to be hunted down. But thinking hunting them down is all we have to do is a very grave mistake that will bite us. cdr5000 said "Trying to undermine him by meeting the real needs of his followers (not the crazy ones) might have been a good effort." Again, exactly. That's what I keep saying. Even more, for each of his followers, there are 1000's that are mad about the same things, they are just moral enough to restrain fron doing evil to try fix them THEY are the real people we should be trying to understand. cdr5000 said "The leaders will follow the masses if they are true leaders and not totalitarian masters." Yes. But even leaders that want to different will sometimes bow to the will of the people if thay have no other choice. They might find some way to say it's what they believed all the time, or find another way to weasel out of the responsibility for what they have done. But they will either bow or be crushed. The others turn into Saddams that eventually get so bad they are either forcefully crushed from the inside or the outside. It's not just the individual things you said that I agree with, but the overall message of your post is just what I have been saying. (OK, I may have differing views on Bush {pick one}, but that's the only thing.) -danComment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
The last part of the book's title is "The Future of Reason". Please s l o w d o w n . . . Consider reading the book first. Then commenting on it. I know that when I read the book I learned a few things. Perhaps you will too. It certainly should give any open minded individual things to think about.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Reason is how neville lost to adolph. Reason on a good base of morals and values that put other people on the same plane as ones self would seem to work. (Where others are viewed as just as valuable, just as able, and just as responsible.)Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
ctibodoe wrote: Reason is how neville lost to adolph. I would disagree, or at least say it was the wrong reason. Substitute the word appeasement and you may have something. The syllogism is that while appeasement may be considered a type of diplomacy, diplomacy does not have to be appeasement. A strong Europe could have supported Czechoslovakia by not signing the 1936 accords, and at the same time letting it be known that European nations stood with the Czech nation. (I really hate getting into "what-ifs". . . .sorry). There are occasions where diplomacy takes different and very strong tactics. The Cuban blockade comes to mind. The war that was averted eventually led to downfall of the Soviet system. DaveComment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
I love what ifs (how else can mistakes be not repeated?), and I love questions, I just plain love learning (Help me here). Was the Cuban blockade really diplomacy??? I thought about this for a few, Or was it a Act of War(that just wasn't answered???)??? The blockade comes to mind as a very big stick, stuck right in someones face. And there, I think someone who wanted to survive (maybe used a little reasoning, because they were both existing on the same plane at the same time???)made a choice that I am thankful for.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
For those of us who remember the times, and for those that may have seen the movie, perhaps the most important lesson of the missile crises was that war was averted. Invading Cuba, and perhaps starting World War III was a very real option. Doing nothing and suffering the consequences of inaction was also an option. Taking the non lethal stance of establishing a blockade bought the matter to a head. Kruschev blinked, the missiles were removed, and the world was made safe for democracy. The blockade was a diplomatic compromise that just happenned to be the best action of all. It was not an act of war. War did not happen, but it could have. That's the point. DaveComment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Well, the real savior of the day was technology! Without those satellite photos the world would be a different place today. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "David Abramowitz"Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
I'm not sure that it wasn't war, and the war didn't continue for many years with the missiles just relocated. Or was it some pretty hard diplomacy....wait, is diplomacy praticed by diplomats? Then what was the Navy, Army and Air Force, and probably Coast Guard armed to the teeth doing on the Front Line in front of the diplomats? I do remember, and could have been vaporized early in game, since I went to school on the Gulf Coast, and I remember bringing water and can food to school and practicing air raids drills in the hallway, sitting down with my head between my legs....funny, I don't think of that as diplomacy. I don't think it was diplomacy. I think it was an unanswered battle cry. I think diplomacy would keep both sides off the trigger. This example just kept both sides on the trigger.Comment
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Perhaps the most important book you will ever read...
Sometimes it takes me a few to get my thoughts into something that gets my idea across... Here goes...neville reasoned the Czechs weren't of enough value (same value as ???) at that particular time, a fatal reasoning exercise for all of Europe. But, a blockade of Germany would have been the right moral thing to do, and today none of us would be calling it diplomacy.Comment
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