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  • Boss says -

    Now what? HELP! HELP! HELP! O.K. I'll try not to panic. What to do? Where to begin? O.K. I'm settling back down. Seems to me that Joe Hervik or someone mentioned seeing IBM demo an externally connected Netfinity system at the recent COMMON Conference. Should I start by checking out that approach? What would be the pros and cons of such an approach? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. This would include links to helpful web sites or trade publication articles. TIA. Please keep in mind that were talking a small shop here with one RPG programmer and no web experience. Most of our code is custom written.

  • #2
    Boss says -

    Frank, I am looking into Net.Data for the i400. Basic overview of Net.Data: It comes standard with 5769-DG1 at OS/400 4_3. You utilize macros to communicate between the web browser and DB2. The macros can have just about anything you want in them (SQL statements, program calls, HTML script). There are APIs available also, but I haven't gotten that far into it. The best part is it is FREE. It took me about one hour to set up a sample macro and configure the entire server connection. Below are all of my links I have found thus far. You can even sign onto an AS/400 in Rochester to do a few macro demos. And did I mention that this is all FREE? http://www.as400.ibm.com/tstudio/wor...a/upandrun.htm http://www.iseries.ibm.com/products/netdata/dbserv.htm http://www.as400.ibm.com/products/netdata/docs/doc.htm http://www.as400.ibm.com/tstudio/net...ws/newfun6.htm http://www-4.ibm.com/software/data/n...ocs/index.html http://www.as400.ibm.com/products/ne...ct/educate.htm

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    • #3
      Boss says -

      Start with something very, very simple; a blinking "Hello, World" will do and go from there; are you familiar with HTML. There is a very good tutorial by Maricopa College in Arizona. Then, next step: pull up a web page that looks close to what you want and clone it. bobh

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      • #4
        Boss says -

        Yes ... look into Net.data ... I've been really impressed with it. For more info and macro samples, go here ... http://www.ignite400/com

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        • #5
          Boss says -

          Frank, One item to consider might be IBM's WhistleJet. Go to Whistle.com for a peek. It is an all-in-one appliance; router, web server, ftp server, mail server, fire wall, etc. Bill

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          • #6
            Boss says -

            Frank, Ok, you have a small shop with only one RPG programmer. Since I dont know your exact situation or requirements, let me make some assumptions: 1 as/400, no in-house network person, no existing corporate connection to the internet, boss wants to just serve up some static html to start. Options: 1. Contact an ISP in your area and get them to host your website. You can use some inexpensive tool like FrontPage to write up some static html pages yourself. This is the absolutely cheapest and quickest way to get your company on the web. It is also the least functional, of course. 2. Hire a local company to come in and set up a cheap configuration in your company. The cheapest thing I can think of is: get a fractional T1 line from a local ISP to your office, set up a web server on an nt box, and put in a cheap firewall (even something like Raptor which could run on the same nt box). This option is still just good to serve up static html, but puts the web server physically in your office. Once the communication line is installed, a contractor can come in and setup all the stuff I mentioned in 1-2 days. You can maintain it by just putting new html files in the appropriate directory. 3. Use your as/400 to serve up static html. If you only have one as/400 this is a pretty risky thing to do as far as I am concerned. But if you didnt mind having your one-and-only, production as/400 visible to the internet, you could: get a fractional T1 line from a local ISP to your office, buy a cheap firewall, and start up the as/400 http server. No programming involved and you can serve up the same static html that you could in the first two options. 4. Use your as/400 to serve up dynamic html. Same as #3 but use net.data to simplify the cgi process. Your html files run a net.data script that then runs almost any as/400 program you want (rpg, rexx, cl, ...). The program returns info back to the http server which sends it to the user's browser. You can start doing basic stuff quickly (like order status or displaying reports). Some very sophisticated web sites still use cgi, and it does help you leverage your existing rpg skills. 5. Since you already know the as/400, lease/purchase a 270 and set it up to run websphere, get a fractional T1 line into your office from your local ISP, buy a cheap firewall. You could get a contractor to come in for a couple of hours to setup the firewall and test connectivity from the 270 out to the ISP. You can start out by serving up some static html if you want. As the boss wants to start expanding the site, you can write some simple servlets and jsp's to run on the 270. I personally think this is the way to go, but I am admittedly biased towards the servlet/jsp model. (BTW: Java is easier to learn than you think and websphere 3.5 is much better than earlier releases.) 6. Same as option #4 but set it up on a leased 270 so your production as/400 isnt visible to the internet. I'm sure there are a lot more options out there. Alex Garrison

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            • #7
              Boss says -

              Start with a white paper, that explains the expense of any web site, and the great expense of a sophisticated site. These reports are available from a variety of sources. If that doesn't kill the project, form a committee. Dave

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              • #8
                Boss says -

                Frank, you need to answer a quick check list of questions: 1. Do you need static pages only, or dynamic pages? And if the answer is "oh, just static", remember that static pages require maintenance, too... maintenance that is probably more time-intensive than tweaking dynamic pages. Who is going to be responsible for keeping the static pages up to date? HINT: This is NOT a good job for a programmer . 2. Do you want some fancy graphics for your front end? As fancy graphics, I suggest checking out our corporate site, http://www.edeployment.com. This site has a very nice graphical front end, followed by what is currently nothing but static text. It's very nicely done static text, but it's really just static text nonetheless. It looks a heck of a lot better than a homebrewed FrontPage site (for contrast, see http://www.java400.net, which is my homebrewed open-source site that gets no help from the corporate coffers ). 3. Do you have an NT server (or better yet, a Windows 2000 server) on your network? I mention this because, as Alex points out, putting your LOB (Line Of Business) AS/400 directly on the Internet is a pretty bad idea. Denial-of-service attacks (where someone just sends millions of packets with no thought of even breaking your security) can bring down your LOB machine. With an NT machine already on your network, it's pretty easy to make it do double duty as your web serving platform. 4. How much are you willing to spend for outsourcing the initial development? Broad ranges are "under $2500", "$2500-$5000", "$5000-$10,000" and "lots"). 5. Are you willing to outsource the entire hosting deal? That is, let someone else host your website. This is colocation and is probably the cheapest solution, but only works with static pages. --------- A hint or two to answer the first question: if you're just planning on showing a corporate presence, a nice static setup is fine. Unless you are planning to provide Internet access to internal data (order status and so on), you probably don't need anything more. Then you just have to choose between something homebrewed (Java/400) or something a little sexier (eDeployment). A typical splash screen and text site should be in the $2500-$5000 range. One with no animated splash screen could probably be had for under $2500. These kinds of sites can be colocated, for a very reasonable monthly rate or you can set up your own server. If you're already connected to the Internet through an NT server, setting up your own server is fairly easy. You might be counseled to get a firewall (something like a Cisco or Netopia router); these are usually under $500 and provide exceptional security to your network. For dynamic access to production data, you are almost required to go the in-house route. In that case, an NT server is still a viable solution, though Alex's suggestion of a "cheap" model 270 is even more secure (I can discuss the security with you offline; email me at href="mailto:joepluta@plutabrothers.com">my office). In either case, a firewall router is highly recommended, with either the NT or 270 being your webserving platform and a secure connection to your AS/400 for data retrieval. At this point, of course, you're talking about some programming for the database access. If you want this, please let me know and I'll give you a more complete rundown of those options. In any case, expect that a minimal site with database access will cost you in the high end of the $5000-$10,000 spectrum, depending on the amount and complexity of access. If you are expecting bidirectional access, that is the ability to enter data from the net along with your inquiry capabilities, or Internet access to your existing legacy applications, you will require the same setup as the database access, but now your costs can quickly escalate into the "lots" category, depending upon your programming expertise and the sophistication of the application. Joe http://www.java400.net http://www.edeployment.com http://www.plutabrothers.com

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                • #9
                  Boss says -

                  We could start simple with a static site, but we really need to be heading towards having a store front. We sell over 20,000 items! Make it valuabe to our numerous retail customers. Make them want to come to the site for useful information. Let them buy things. Let them change their addresses. Let's send E-mail newletters to them, etc... Ideally, the store front should tie into our existing AS/400 database. Good news - in addition to a full time RPG programmer, we do have a full time PC/MAC/LAN guy, but we have no web site experience. Also, I agree with those of you who say for reasons of security not to connect the Internet directly to the existing AS/400. One other thing - we're in an area where the Time Warner Roadrunner folks are just getting started. The phone company folks seem to very expensive by comparison. Yes, it's a rural area. I anxiously await any additional comments that you may have. Thanks again.

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                  • #10
                    Boss says -

                    Dave - Based on your suggestion, I will look for white papers. If you could point me in the direction of a couple of good ones, I'm sure you'd be helping out additional folks besides just me. A committee? Yes, that should either kill the project or get me greatly needed "buy in" support!

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                    • #11
                      Boss says -

                      The good news about storefronts is that there are already some very good ones available. However, most of them are designed to be run from PCs, without a lot of interaction with a backend processor. For example, you'd probably like to store your customer information on the AS/400, but allow the customer to modify it. This would mean some sort of client/server access. Your storefront should also allow inventory to change by simply changing the data on the AS/400. This could range from a batch process that would change the site on, say, a daily basis, to an entirely integrated approach where the site is dynamically updated in realtime based on the host data. As these requirements get more sophisticated, you could include deals tailored to a specific customer, volume pricing discounts, and special announcements for new customers. One suggestion is to take a look at who your primary competition is, and see what you need to do to "beat" their site. Create a list of desired capabilities and prioritize them, then implement them in a staged process. Especially allow feedback from your customers as to what they would like to see in your website. Find a company with both AS/400 and web development expertise; having both is absolutely essential to integrated website development, otherwise you end up with different teams working at cross purposes. What is good from a web developer's standpoint is not necessarily good from an AS/400 standpoint, so you really need a mediator for the process. And above all, stay away from proprietary solutions if at all possible. Anything you purchase should be as configurable and open-source as possible. Remember that web technology is changing more rapidly than any computer technology we've ever seen before - the leading edge today may be the doorstop of tomorrow (anybody remember applets?). If your direction begins to diverge from that of your original provider, you want to be able to take over the development yourself without being tied to any one company. A final caution on Internet connections: T1 lines are very expensive, and providers like to lock you into longterm deals. IMHO, I would avoid these if possible, since once again, technology is changing rapidly. A longterm deal at $10,000 a year may seem like a bargain today, but may quickly become a stone around your neck when a $200/month solution becomes available. Joe http://www.java400.net http://www.edeployment.com http://www.plutabrothers.com

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                      • #12
                        Boss says -

                        Frank Whittemore wrote: "We could start simple with a static site, but we really need to be heading towards having a store front. We sell over 20,000 items!" Hi Frank, I'm frankly mystified and embarrassed at the hemming and hawing responses to putting up a web site in an AS/400 shop that generally trail off to talk of a PC. It's no wonder AS/400 people are not involved in company web strategies. Now that we know you have 20,000 products and fit the profile of a typical catalogue type site, you should get a commercial catlogue package up and running. My experience was that a very large company in Connecticut, an AS/400 shop, had a mandate from the CEO to launch a catalogue site in 3 months that was integrated in real time with the company's JD Edwards World (read RPG) ERP. This was accomplished with great success with Advanced BusinessLink's Strategi web server and their catalogue application, which comes as web pages (HTML, Javascript, and Cascading Style Sheets) and the catalogue servers (ILE RPG source). An ILE RPG integration server is customized to read/write the ERP. Doesn't IBM have a Websphere catalogue solution as well? As for hardware, although I don't think it's realistic to run a major web site on the production AS/400, if you can't justify a small AS/400 dedictaed web server, than you're not running a major web site. So run it on your production AS/400 until you generate enough traffic to buy a $20,000 AS/400 web server and then read your production files with DDM from the AS/400 web server instead of directly. This means no change to your site to migrate off to a dedicated web server with real time access to your production data. It's ridiculous to base architecture decisions around Denial of Service attacks. First, you have to have someone who wants to deny your presence on the web. Only sites which have a high profile in the cracker community get such attacks. Even if you encounter a wave of unwanted traffic, just pull the plug on the firewall until it's over. You'll never see such an attack, but that's all you have to do and your production AS/400 is still running. Neither Websphere nor Strategi is open source, nor is IIS on NT. Apache is the main open source web server. I doubt seriously whether open source has any merit unless it exposes code that you wish to modify, for example the source code to ERPs. Strategi's solution includes source code to modify the web pages, the server programs, and to customize integration. I would be interested to hear what other catalogue solutions come with source code. The Fortune 20 company was up and running and taking million dollar orders from its dealers in the first month. There is no reason why you wouldn't be up and running just as quick, and without using any consultants or starting from scratch. The Stategi web server is $4,000. I don't know how much their catalogue app costs, but it would be priced similarly. I would compare to solutions from IBM Websphere and Lansa, and I would not involve NT. There's no reason to. HTH, Ralph ralph@ee.net

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                        • #13
                          Boss says -

                          Ralph wrote: "Neither Websphere nor Strategi is open source, nor is IIS on NT. Apache is the main open source web server. I doubt seriously whether open source has any merit unless it exposes code that you wish to modify, for example the source code to ERPs. Strategi's solution includes source code to modify the web pages, the server programs, and to customize integration." Ralph, I see the term "open source" thrown around a lot. What exactly is meant by open source? I thought I knew, but lately I have seen it used in ways which makes me think my definition is too basic. Could you please explain it in a bit more detail? And why should it be an important consideration to me when I put up my websites? (I hope that will be REAL soon!) Muchos Gracias In Advance!

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                          • #14
                            Boss says -

                            Ralph, I see the term "open source" thrown around a lot. What exactly is meant by open source? It's quite simple, really. In an open-source solution, you own the source to every piece of software that isn't part of the operating system. Operating system bugs go to IBM, and you can modify everything else because you have the source code. This was always the status quo in AS/400 software - for example, if you bought BPCS, you got all the source. Why? Because no packaged solution fits everyone's business needs. Desktop software, because of its dedicated function and small pricetag, doesn't need to be open; rarely are you going to need to rewrite your word processor. But you should have all the source to anything that has to do with your business, since you may need to modify it at some time to better fit your business, or maybe just to find out why something is working the way it is. Short answer: business software is not shrinkwrap. Joe

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                            • #15
                              Boss says -

                              buy a $20,000 AS/400 web server and then read your production files with DDM from the AS/400 web server In the security sessions I attended at COMMON, the common thread (no pun intended) was to secure your production data from TCP/IP access. By making secure production data accessible through DDM to an AS/400 with TCP/IP access, you have in effect given TCP/IP access to the production data. The idea of having the web server AS/400 is to provide a demilitarized zone where no production data is accessible through regular file access, but instead only through controlled server programs not accessible through TCP/IP. Joe

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