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Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

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  • #16
    Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

    Hi Nathan, Many good questions you have been raising. My recollection was that with both Jacada's and IBM's conversions, the output was Java code (AWT?) that, in Jacada's case, could be modified and enhanced, and in IBM's case, could at the least be enhanced to call additional code. IBM has too many things going for me to stay on top of. Is the Webfacing stuff being discussed strictly HTML output, or is the output for Java AWT clients? The reason I ask is that the difficult conversions you speak of are a different beast altogether if the conversion is to a Java client (source code generated in Jacada's case, or a Java client product with exit calls in IBM's case). Of course, if I'm mistaken and this is some super duper upgrade from 5250 Gateway web pages, then I would like to see what the constraints of the conversion are. Ralph

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    • #17
      Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

      According to the article I referenced in the beginning, Webfacing generates JSPs (i.e. HTML) - not AWT components. Thanks for the comment, though. Nathan.

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      • #18
        Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

        Ralph Daugherty asked: how many companies would buy an AS/400 as an $115,000 web server? I am totally confused. This is a great point. Companies not currently using the AS/400 would not pony up this price just to get a web server. Companies using the AS/400 would want to integrate their existing apps with web serving capability. IMO, the existing apps, are indeed the meat and potatoes of a firm's business. Web serving is something new. If it is an experiment, then a firm is likely to have static pages, where no integration is necessary. A small anything box would suffice. If a firm dives in to the deep end, access to the database is essential, but that does not negate the need for interactive processing. The "system" models provide both functions superbly well. OTOH, a new customer seeking to develop client applications only might do well to spend the bucks. They will get 64 bit power, and an integrated ANSI-SQL compliant RDBMS as a base for their client applications. Using the same box for web serving should not be an issue. OTOOH, CFINTxx may kick in for batch procedures. IMO, the bottom line is that IBM can make a profit without the "interactive tax". Drop the price; eliminate CFINTxx; Simplify, by offering only a single line of models; Avoid the confusion; Avoid the problems. Dave

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        • #19
          Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

          Ralph Daugherty wrote: a major successful implementation of interfacing to a Fortune 100's JDE World was done a year ago and put into operation in the three month timeframe that the CEO had demanded That's O.K. for a Fortune 100 company, where the allocation of resources, and budget are not a problem. Your typical AS/400 shop may not have the budget, or the resources. Dave

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          • #20
            Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

            Dave wrote: "Your typical AS/400 shop may not have the budget, or the resources." Hi Dave, The point was that it was done in that timeframe because they integrated to a commercial catalog package instead of starting from scratch. The work was done by one independent consultant in the Seattle area who is a JDE specialist. BusinessLink did also add a couple of things to their product in the same timeframe to meet customer requirements, which they also did for me when I was a customer. The Fortune 100 on the East coast had an AS/400 JDE staff, but chose to outsource the website development given the time constraints. The consultant was a verteran JDE RPG programmer and had no experience with the web. He just interfaced the catalog files to the JDE files. It was a real time integration site, not a copy file site, and although I didn't go through the code with him in detail, the integration specified where the caalog code was to retrieve information and what calculations to perform on it. Thanks for the comments, Dave. Ralph ralph@ee.net

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            • #21
              Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

              Hi Nathan, I see why I haven't run across that much on Webfacing... it's still in a pilot stage. IBM does contrast the Host On Demand product I was referring to as being more complex to port to. On the other hand, they say that if you're in the Webfacing pilot program you must give them a list of DDS keywords that you use and they'll tell you which ones are supported and attempt to add others on an ongoing basis. I don't know if this is limited to the pilot program or just how much support they expect to have before releasing the product (it was stated 2nd quarter 2001... is it already released? is that why we're talking about it?) On a related note, IBM says that 76% of new AS/400 sales are for running new e-business software... whether the customer knew they were getting a crippled machine or not.... Ralph

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              • #22
                Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                Do converted applications enforce restrictions on the browser? For example, are the and buttons disabled? Is the URL box disabled? What if the 5250 back-end is waiting in one state, and the user were able to jump to a different state, leaving the 5250 application in limbo? I believe you're going to have this problem with any attempt to move a traditional green-screen application to a non-captive display. I'd be interested to hear what you (or anybody else) would consider a viable solution to this particular problem. For me, I plan to disable forward, back and URL when I'm in the midst of a legacy application. I can't see any way around it without major changes to the program. Joe

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                • #23
                  Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                  Ralph Daugherty wrote: IBM does contrast the Host On Demand product I was referring to as being more complex to port to. I am looking into this webfacing discussion with a great deal of interest. One of my clients may be moving to HOD shortly. I have done a great deal of research, and it appears to be a piece of cake. If webfacing is easier, then it may be a consideration. OTOH, The HOD license is about $1,500. with another $1,500. for the customizer. If webfacing requires the full blown Websphere product, then that could put a serious hitch in the gitalong. If I could be directed to a site with 8x11 Webfacing glossies it would be appreciated. Aside from the info in this thread, I have not been able to find any other mention of the product. Dave

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                  • #24
                    Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                    I found next to nothing on it, Dave, not even a white paper PDF to download. When they don't have enough of a product to put together a white paper, then that says an awful lot about it. But I did see enough to know it's a conversion of green screen DDS via a tool versus on the fly ala BOS MorphMaster. My opinion is as always: its simpler because the potential of a web page is less. If it's difficult to render web pages manually, it sure as heck isn't being done automatically by IBM software. It isn't for no reason that green screen re-engineering has had to be done in an IDE versus automatically converted since day one. Ralph

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                    • #25
                      Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                      It will be a month or two before a final decision is made. I think I'll wait. Dave

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                      • #26
                        Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                        The following URL will lead to an older IBM presentation. Down around the 25th slide or so, there are some slides that give a very high level mention of the WebFacing tool. http://www-4.ibm.com/software/ad/wdt...esentation.pdf

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                        • #27
                          Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                          Thanks, Mike. That's a bit more info. There was even a sample screen shot... all 2 fields of it... Ralph

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                          • #28
                            Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                            Ralph, Here's a link to the PDF on "IBM WebSphere Development Tools for AS/400: An Introduction, REDP0503" (RedPaper). http://publib-b.boulder.ibm.com/Redbooks.nsf/Redpapers/ Check out Webfacing example in Chap 4, it has 3 screen shots http://publib-b.boulder.ibm.com/Redb...98b007bbec9/53 8ae9f95fd58d59862569bc00638412?OpenDocument (looks like it requires Websphere Application Server v3.5) Terry

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                            • #29
                              Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                              I contacted IBM on this webfacing tool with these questions: 1) Does the web facing tool force recompiling of RPG programs? 2) Is the migration of DDS to JavaBeans transparent to the program (can the program still be used as a green-screen version)? 3) Is it possible to use the WebFacing tool without being a vendor? We are a customer site, but do quite a bit of development here as well. 4) When will the WebFacing tool be GA? Here are the responses: 1 No the WebFacing tool in theory doesn't force a recompile of the RPG/COBOL legacy, actually the PGM is not even aware that it is talking to a browser interface instead of 5250. The reason I am saying in theory, WebFacing will not support all DDS keywords, so you might have to change your programs to accomodate the missing support for some keywords. 2 Yes the progam can drive both 'WebFaced and 5250 screens at the same time since it not aware of the changes 3 The WebFacing program does not have any openings, you can still run the DDS keyword report but and send it in and we will add the results to our database. This will allow us to prioritize future enhancements to WebFacing. 4 The WebFacing tool is not announced by IBM so I can't give you an official date but it should be inside the second quarter of this year. This will be the First Edition of the WebFacing tool, enhancements will be added during the rest of the year. Thought y'all might find this interesting.....

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                              • #30
                                Is the new WebFacing tool the first step to Web enablement?

                                It will be a month or two before a final decision is made. I think I'll wait. Good idea... Brian

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