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Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

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  • Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

    Well Steve, the answer has gotta be in whatever is processing your inactive message queue. We set up our system to process the data queue via a CL program I developed. It has numerous conditions in it determining whether a job should be ended or just disconnected. There is special logic there that doesn't touch the console -unless- it is after 8pm. I assumed that if the console is still active after 8, then someone forgot to sign it off and that job should be ended. It sure sounds like you all have the same setup, it explains the scenario perfectly.
    Oh yeah, and stop calling me Lucy.
    If the IBM owner of save 21 isn't smart enough to realize that, in most situations, the system is gonna kill the job before time for the save to start, what's the point in adding the feature?


  • #2
    Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

    It will still run in qctl. The Save works great. The only thing to consider is this. 1. You have to sign on to the System Counsel and then leave it unattended. Any body that can do a sysrq can option 2 and kill the job. Then they have full access to your system as Secofr. Is it worth it? That up to you. Tim

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    • #3
      Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

      We just tried it last weekend and it didn't work. Did option 21 from GO SAVE. The screen was inhibited and got the message, Save submitted at 16:40 Save will start at 11:00. I came in at 17:30 the next day and it was still inhibited and looking at the joblog I can see where the job issued DLYJOB RSMTIME(11:00). It then tried to do an ENDSBS, but not until 17:46. Does anyone have any suggestions?

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      • #4
        Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

        Hmm, I haven't tried that command before, but let's try something anyway. I will -assume- that it was doing an EndSbs with the command defaults of Option(*Cntrld) and Delay(*Nolimit) . So, if we take a look at what was really happening, the system couldn't end the subsystems in a controlled manor -and- since it was to wait forever (the result of *Nolimit), you get the results you experienced.
        Oops, I just looked at the help for that menu option and this is what it says:


        ENDSBS SBS(*ALL) OPTION(*IMMED) SAVSYS SAVLIB LIB(*NONSYS) ACCPTH(*YES) SAVDLO DLO(*ALL) FLR(*ANY) SAV OBJ(('/*) ('/QSYS.LIB' *OMIT) ('/QDLS' *OMIT) UPDHST(*YES) STRSBS SBSD(controlling-subsystem)

        So, can you take a look at the joblog again and tell us exactly what the EndSbs command looked like? And maybe even what messages, if any, followed.
        Bill
        We just tried it last weekend and it didn't work. Did option 21 from GO SAVE. The screen was inhibited and got the message, Save submitted at 16:40 Save will start at 11:00. I came in at 17:30 the next day and it was still inhibited and looking at the joblog I can see where the job issued DLYJOB RSMTIME(11:00). It then tried to do an ENDSBS, but not until 17:46. Does anyone have any suggestions?

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        • #5
          Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

          I posed this question in preparation for a V4R5 upgrade. My thinking was that I could set the time for the save to start and it would be finished by the time I came in to start the upgrade. Friday 13:41 - Initiated the save. Set the time on the parm to 03:00:00. Got a message that the save was submitted and would start at 03:00. Friday 13:42 - Save process checked for tape in drive. All's well. Friday 16:15 - Checked on job. WRKACTJOB showed DLY 03:00:00. All's well. Went home. Friday 20:20 - "All jobs at work station DSP01 ended." I don't know why this happened. The sysval QINACTITV is set for 15 minutes. QCONSOLE is DSP01. I was signed on as QSECOFR. I have a daily process that begins at 20:00. It sends a BRKMSG to *ALLWS at 20:00, 20:15, and 20:25 before ending QINTER at 20:30. I suppose some interaction occurred between the DLYJOB and the SNDBRKMSG that caused DSP01 to end. Your thoughts? Steve

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          • #6
            Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

            Steve,
            Did you save the joblog for DSP01? It should tell you/us everything about what happened.
            Bill
            I don't know why this happened. The sysval QINACTITV is set for 15 minutes. QCONSOLE is DSP01. I was signed on as QSECOFR.

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            • #7
              Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

              Yep, sure did. (paraphasing) 13:41:34 - Job DSP01 started. 13:41:38 - Go save. 13:42:00 - Volume found on device TAP01. 20:20:36 - All jobs at work station DSP01 ended. 20:20:36 - Job DSP01 ended. That's it. The job log is about half a page long. The "All jobs at work station DSP01 ended" message is CPI1127 which goes into some detail about exceeding the QINACTITV sysval but I don't believe that's an accurate description of what happened. The system was up and running from 13:41 until about 16:15 so I'm pretty sure that the save didn't occur at that time and there is nothing on the (new) tape that I used. Thanks for your help, Steve

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              • #8
                Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                Hey All, Yes I agree with you on the SAVE option 21, it does have bugs. I developed a CL program that does SAVE 21. It keeps me away from the shop on the Weekends most of the time. Its Interactive. One of The Things I had to do was Disable the QINACTITV & QDSCJOBITV so my job did not end. DLYJOB until it hits the Time. If anyone is interested in Code let me know Steve

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                • #9
                  Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                  That's it. The job log is about half a page long. The "All jobs at work station DSP01 ended" message is CPI1127 which goes into some detail about exceeding the QINACTITV sysval but I don't believe that's an accurate description of what happened. The system was up and running from 13:41 until about 16:15 so I'm pretty sure that the save didn't occur at that time and there is nothing on the (new) tape that I used.

                  Oh but I think that it -is- an accurate description. Think about what happened, your save job sat waiting for the time to begin, but the system said "hey the job at DSP01 has been sitting around inactive (no data interchange), so I'm killing it". Make sense? Bill

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                  • #10
                    Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                    Lu-u-u-cy, you've got some 'splainin to do . . . WHY did it wait 6 hours and some change before it killed the job? QINACTITV is 15 minutes. If the IBM owner of save 21 isn't smart enough to realize that, in most situations, the system is gonna kill the job before time for the save to start, what's the point in adding the feature? Disgustedly, Steve

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                    • #11
                      Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                      We use Option 21 with the time parm every Friday and it works great. I wonder how you are filling in the "Prompt for commands" parm. You will want that to be N, also you will want your "Message queue delivery" to be *notify not break. Those are about the only 2 things that I can imagine that would hose it up..... Bruce Shultz

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                      • #12
                        Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                        Bruce - Like you, I would think that would hose it up, too, so I entered 'N' for 'Prompt for Commands' and '*NOTIFY for 'Message queue delivery'. What is your QINACTITV sysval? What time do you enter the command on Friday? What time does the save actually start? Thanks, Steve

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                        • #13
                          Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                          After reviewing the entire thread I have to agree with an earlier post that wondered if there could be a job that runs to kill the inactive jobs, you might want to check your job scheduler.... We enter the command at about 11am on Fridays and set it for about 2300, and it issues the ENDSBS at 2300.Our sysval for QINACTITV is *NONE(so yeah that probably is your problem),though the one you really want to check is QINACTMSGQ because that is the one that determines what action is taken against inactive jobs. If nothing else write a CL to change the time interval for QINACTITV to *NONE(or manually change it for now) and anonther to change it back(at a time when you think your save will have finished) and put them on your Job Scheduler. By the way Wayne Evans book on security has a little program in it that uses the prior mentioned sysvals but allows you to exclude some user profiles (such as QSECOFR) depending on their ACGCDE.

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                          • #14
                            Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                            Well, I tried again to use the time parm on the SAVE 21 screen and once again I was struck down by the cruel hand of fate . . . Friday 13:17 - Initiated the save. Set the time on the parm to 03:00:00. Got a message that the save was submitted and would start at 03:00. Friday 13:19 - Save process checked for tape in drive. All's well. Friday 16:15 - Checked on job. WRKACTJOB showed DLY 03:00:00. All's well. Went home. Monday 5:00 - "Subsystem ending immediately." (This is caused by a weekly IPL that occurs Mondays at 5:00 AM). Obviously, I didn't get zapped by QINACTITV this time but, once again, I have no idea what happened. Other jobs (PM/400, for instance) continued to run over the weekend and several jobs that run from the job scheduler ran normally. In fact, the normal daily backup, which I had put on 'hold' since I was running the option 21 save, issued a message at 0300 stating that it wouldn't be run because it was held. Any thoughts on this one? Thanks, Steve

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                            • #15
                              Ever used the time parameter on Save option 21?

                              What does the job log say happened at 3am on Saturday?
                              Friday 13:17 - Initiated the save. Set the time on the parm to 03:00:00. Got a message that the save was submitted and would start at 03:00. Friday 16:15 - Checked on job. WRKACTJOB showed DLY 03:00:00. All's well. Went home. Monday 5:00 - "Subsystem ending immediately." (This is caused by a weekly IPL that occurs Mondays at 5:00 AM).

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