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All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    I am on the Advisory Committee for the Programmer/Analyst program at Gateway, and a fellow member of WMCPA with Jim Buck. I agree with much of what Jim said, but feel there are at least three factors at play: 1) Lack of interest on the part of some (not all) programmers. As you and others stated, completing school doesn’t complete your education…it should be ongoing. When you stop learning…you’re done. Of course, if your company doesn’t support training, then it comes out of your own pocket and vacation bank, if you can get the time off. 2) Lack of foresight by some companies. Both IT and company management need to realize that IT is a moving target. Holding still is actually falling behind as other companies (that have at least some foresight) are moving ahead. Which is worse – training an employee and having them leave, or not training them and keeping them? Many companies won’t send people to training unless there is a tangible and direct benefit. 3) IBM’s mixed messages about the platform. Let’s make sure everyone learns SmallTalk…on OS/2. What about San Francisco? Is EGL (or whatever they’re calling it today) the next big thing…or a flash in the pan? Seen any ads lately? This platform (pick whatever name you can remember) has, as Dr. Soltis talked about at our last conference, incredible capabilities. But, if no one knows about it, what difference will it make? Any of the above groups can claim the same motto: "I have seen the enemy...and it is us!"

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    I don't mean a whole-new-programming language everyday. Just a new word like "indicia" on a post-card from Bobby awhile back. It was good for me, as learned "something" new that day.

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    First hand from Jim, that it's still being taught education side, and saught employment-wise. I got my basic-training at Kalamazoo Valley Comm. Coll. in the early eighties and I often wondered if they still had a hand in the midrange world...Too afraid to look I guess. But it's that lack of initiative thing that I've never understood... I think, "Don't you want to learn something new...???" Like almost everyday...??? If I didn't or couldn't learn something new when the itch arises...(Our platform has endless opportunities for that.) My career would have died from within years ago. I mean, If you don't learn a new "curve" every now-and-then...Don't you feel kinda like a repetitive-worker-drone doing assembly line drudgery...I'd last about two days before my mind-nebula'd if it was like that.

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  • OzzieH
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    The sad truth, that is, a possible truth, is that the platform is already dead---these things just take a while to go room temperature. There's just no way that a company like IBM can tolerate a zero-growth division long term. It just can't.

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  • jbuck1
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    I teach a Gateway Technical College in Kenosha WI. Gateway has had an IBM midrange program for fifteen years. Our two year program is the best program in the country. You can read about it here - http://www.gtc.edu/pages/displayProg...p?pid=10-152-1. I felt that I needed to share some of my experiences with the group. I continually struggle to get enough students to fill my classes. I haven’t seen the upswing in enrollments. I have seen a large number of companies express interest in hiring my students. Why? They are looking for talent that isn’t “Married” to the PDM and the 5250 interface; People that know WDSc, VB.net and Java. Don’t forget RPG ILE, I teach a full two semesters of RPG. Four students had jobs before they graduated this year. One of them was hired by a company that hired a student in the past. The company must have been satisfied with the product. The college offered seminars for System i professionals last year. I had one student sign up. Here is a list of seminars – www.gtc.edu/systemi Are we offering subjects that don’t interest professionals? I agree with enfkay; the majority of System i professionals suffer from a lack of initiative. I’m very active in the business community (This is my fourth year as president of the WMCPA – www.wmcpa.org). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard the following: • I’m just a few years from retiring. Why would I want to learn anything new? • My company won’t pay for training. • There’s nothing wrong with PDM or RPG III. I’ve used it for many years. This is just a sample of the excuses I hear. I constantly tell my students that getting a degree is just the first step and that they need to constantly learn and improve their skills. These professionals missed that part of the course. I do see one or two students every semester that have been programming for years. These professionals are usually unemployed and are having difficulties getting jobs. Perhaps being unemployed is what it takes to get an “Old-timer” to learn something new! In conjunction with IBM and the WMCPA; The College held a one-day seminar last year and will sponsor another one this year on October 12th. Despite sending out over 1200 mailers and numerous emails from IBM and the WMCPA, It was attended by 35 people. It will be interesting to see what happens this year. If the System i community doesn’t embrace new technologies and make an effort to incorporate these technologies into their companies. The System i will go the way of the System 34. Feel free to contact me if you have questions concerning my efforts at Gateway – jbuck1@wi.rr.com Thanks, Jim Buck

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    That was kind of an "inclusive" jab at me too.

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  • dford@pmi.delta.org
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    You are probably a 3 to 5'er if you: a. ... f. Drink coffee in the afternoon.
    Hey! I drink coffee in the afternoon! :-) (I'm working on my first cup of the day right now ... at 3:15pm). After a big lunch (and not enough sleep last night), it's the only thing that keeps me going. -- DaveSlash

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  • dford@pmi.delta.org
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    Hi Bob, I agree that it's an extremely lame excuse to say "we can't offer a class without a 2-year lead time". I've discussed that very issue with them, but my concerns seem to fall on deaf ears. More accurately, everyone there agrees with me, but nobody believes anything can be done about it. So, they concede defeat without ever trying to change it. Several years ago, they attempted a "VisualAge for RPG" course. (I even bought the book and signed up for it!) But, because of low enrollment, they had to cancel the class. Same with the "advanced RPG" course, I believe. I also agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY that they need to do a MUCH better job of publicizing their classes. (all of them ... not just the iSeries ones!) In the advisory board meetings, we've tried to convince them to use new ideas for advertising, but (with a couple exceptions) it falls one the same deaf ears. (Sometimes, I think they're consciously TRYING to shoot themselves in the foot.) -- DaveSlash

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  • B.Langieri
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    Dave, When I pressed the instructor to offer Java for RPG Programmers or WebSphere about 3-4 years ago, the answer was we already have a Java class (non-iSeries) and that it takes about 2 years to get a class into the mix. I believe that I have a good feel from our user group members and the local System i5 community that they would rush to and fill up a class like "Java for RPG Programmers" for which IBM offers the courseware. I had spoken with IBM 3-4 years ago and they too were trying to convince the college to offer this class. There are variations of other classes, why not a variation of Java classes? I understand the college's role is to offer classes that will fill seats, but if you never offer the class, how can you predict it's success or failure. Take off the blinders and try a new idea or be doomed to obsolescence. Also, Publicize the new class to the industry through user groups, IBM functions, Business Partners rather than relying solely on the college catalogue print or on-line. My marketing experience tells me to research and find out what people want, develop it, advertize or publicize it (marketing)and deliver it in a timely manor, get feedback to improve your product or service, continue to market and continue to improve and update your offerings. One other shortcoming for the colleges is qualified instructors to teach new subject matter for the i5. IBM had always been a big supporter of employee sabbaticals, maybe they could spare some of their talent to teach others how to use their great technology. Reading assignment for IBM - "Johnny Appleseed." Another assignment for IBM to ponder, "...teach them to fish and they will learn to feed themselves.." or something along that order. I for one, appreciate what you do to help support the college, but maybe they need an i5 Advisory Board to determine how best to utilize 2 IBM iSeries and a 25 seat lab for more than basic System Operator skills.

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  • Guest.Visitor
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    My lunch money has come from the success of IBM midrange systems for twenty-plus years. (My 2nd career) I would like another 15 years out of them but have reasons to doubt it. Community colleges generally offer classes and certifications in disciplines that the "job-placement" people at the college can find opportunities for graduates. Lack of additional and complimentary skill sets in the "average" 20+ year programmer peer is NOT the lack of college classes, company paid-training, or other available resources. It's one word...lack of "initiative". That can't be taught, invoked, or given to someone. You've got to come with it. Then all you have to do is learn to read. (Referring to the wealth of resources out there for our beloved platform.) I currently am a "Dead Programmer Walking" because of my company being the smaller of the two in an ongoing M&A. Unfortunately the DEC/Alpha platform and DIBOL programming language at the bigger company is "deader" than "dead" and makes our i5 platform and RPG feel like "bleeding" edge stuff. Going forward to anything C#, .NET, Java would be welcome...Going back 30 years? I'll have to mull that over awhile. I call those guys and many of my 20+ year veterans, Three to Five's...Because they learned what they know in the 1st three to five years of their careers and 15 years later they are still using the same programming knowledge and code. You are probably a 3 to 5'er if you: a. Still use primary-secondary file processing and/or the RPG-cycle. b. Use COMP, CAB, GOTO opcodes, halt indicators, level indicators and 1P. c. Still using O-specs to define report layouts. d. If you can even remember what a "look-ahead" field is. e. Don't use SQL for anything. f. Drink coffee in the afternoon.

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  • JohndeCoville
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    What Jean is asking for, an old wound, is that the i5/OS have COMPLETENESS. Lacking a native GUI, a native WEB Interface and the perception that WDSc 7.0 is still incomplete is key to the cessation of new development in the System-i world. My impression is that IBM has a short-attention-span and wonders off leaving behind a poor "Fit and Finish" on its products. Many products such as WDSc 7.0 have many excellent features but get killed with the continuing slow download time for new source members. Perception is 80% of reality and managers who make purchasing decisions have noted. Also noting this condition are information technology students who quickly notice that the illusion of a GUI is supplied by Eclipse or some other product running on a front-end PC. The balkiness of many features look, well, "dorky", while Microsoft's huge investment in its IDE looks, well, "cool". IBM, please eliminate the loose-ends! 1. Supply integrated native Web Support. 2. Finish and I mean really finish WDSc 7.0! Get feedback! 3. Work on other products in place such as DB2! DB2 is at best balky and not really integrated into the fabric of i5xx. 4. Work on Client Access, which still according to IBM's own Data-Base group, has not had appreciable performance improvements! Just note: DTSx packages on MS SQL server 2005 are up to 600% faster than those on SQL Server 2000. 5. Magazine publishers, stop refusing to post comments that are critical to IBM! Let all comments in that conform to the guidelines: Non-abusive, no vulgarity or unprofessional language and no flaming. All others are in. Let your forums, responses to editorials be representative of the opinions out there - yes! That includes the skeptics! Thank you Jean André for having the courage to ask for Web Services integration! --John

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  • JeanAndre
    Guest replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    I think that the problem of System i5 employment in France and everywhere might be solved the day System i5 will have native web interface added to 5250. That would be possible if IBM will want to integrate Web Services and SOA to i5/OS such like database… so RPGIV developers only need Wizards to have web interfaces (or Blackberry interface etc…) Help us IBM ! Please, what are you doing with the V6R1?

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  • dford@pmi.delta.org
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    If only we could convince the college to offer a semester-long course on advanced RPG, Java, WDSC, or related iSeries topics, we believe that out of our membership of almost 400 people, we could easily get 25 to enroll each semester for a night class or online learning. I believe that most people who are already experienced with the iSeries/System i platform would take advantage of the opportunity to improve their skills.
    I know the community college of which you speak (heck, i'm even on their advisory board), but they've tried to offer courses in advanced iSeries topics in the past. But, because of low enrollments, the classes get cancelled. To be fair, though, there was a drastic decline in enrollment in ALL programming classes for a while. In my own observation, though, that trend is turning around. (I start my PHP class at another local community college next week ... Yea!) So, let's hope the current "upswing" in enrollments will affect the iSeries classes as well! -- DaveSlash

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  • David Abramowitz
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    You may have an issue with the 2-3 year bit. Most midrange programmers in the shops and user groups in my area have a minimum of ten years of rock solid programming. Many will double as system designers, triple as operators, and quadrouple as business analysts. These are individuals who have weathered many IT battles and bear the scars thereof. Consequently, they will want the compensation worthy of their efforts. Eliminate the experience part of your advertising. You should receive better paper from better candidates. It should become apparant in an interview if an individual cannot cut the mustard. Dave

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  • belgorodskym
    replied
    All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go

    ** This thread discusses the article: All Dressed Up and Nowhere to Go **
    Is it possible that the low speed is caused by harsh punishment for mistakes? I've experienced that phenomenon. BTW, I am a good RPG and Java programmer, with 15+ of experience, and would be very happy to work on an AS/400 project. Oracle annoys me every day. Mike 301-907-8134

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