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Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

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  • #16
    Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

    As pointed out in Joe Pluta's "Future King" article, IBM's attitude and strategy for the iSeries is changing, and will lead to a larger user base. Our company is an iSeries ISV, and our revenue last year was 2.5 times greater than the year before. Our primary message to customers was that we're committed to the iSeries platform, and we're making good progress at modernizing and extending their applications. This message has been well-received. Another message that has been well received is that our applications are open-source. We and our business partners, and even customers contribute to an open-source repository that any member may download. Our primary customer base is in the public sector [K-12 Education], but open-source collaboration could probably work in the private sector too. It seems that advantageous economies of scale could be achieved by IT departments of small companies if they were to participate in a consortium, along with other small companies, while retaining independence. In that way, small companies could have more of a collaborative relationship with multiple IT vendors, rather than a relationship where a single large IT vendor retained a lock on the applicaton and customer base, essentially enabling them to force customers to migrate to platforms or technologies which were primarily in the vendor's interest. The iSeries has an essential role in that it's the only platform that successfully integrates so many otherwise disparate technologies. Nathan.

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    • #17
      Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

      Ralph wrote: "OS/400 is the kind of computing architecture that could handle the government's largest failures at the FBI and IRS," Its the successes that don't get enough press. The Social Security Administration runs AS/400's supporting the disability program in FIFTY of the states in the union, plus its territories and regional support centers. The application software version I support in some of those offices has been running for over ten years. It is built with Advantage:2E (aka SYNON) and for most of its life the 1.5 million lines of code was maintained by TWO developers. Trevor (spending your taxes wisely)

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      • #18
        Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

        Well, the midnight hour may not have struck for the AS/400 yet, but it has struck for me. I just got passed over yet again out of a crowd of candidates for an AS/400 programming job. It's been a year and a half now, and the AS/400 job market never did recover, although I saw sputtering signs of life a few months ago. I'll just keep working on my Java projects, maybe I can generate some kind of work out of it eventually, but a 15 year run of great projects on the AS/400 has finally come to an end, I guess. And along with it, my ability to make a living. rd

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        • #19
          Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

          Ralph, Sorry to hear that. Do you mind if I ask a few questions? What part of the country are you in? Have you been a consultant in the last few years? chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Ralph Daugherty" wrote in message news:6b22cb3a.22@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Well, the midnight hour may not have struck for the AS/400 yet, but it has > struck for me. I just got passed over yet again out of a crowd of > candidates for an AS/400 programming job. It's been a year and a half now, > and the AS/400 job market never did recover, although I saw sputtering > signs of life a few months ago. > > I'll just keep working on my Java projects, maybe I can generate some kind > of work out of it eventually, but a 15 year run of great projects on the > AS/400 has finally come to an end, I guess. > > And along with it, my ability to make a living. > > rd

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          • #20
            Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

            No, I don't mind at all, Chuck. I am in Ohio, have been since 1989 programming RPG on the AS/400 with some consulting gigs to Seattle and Chicago during that time. I am told that the midwest is lagging somewhat in the job market recovery, which is an understatement if I've ever heard one. On the other hand, where jobs are most frequently listed (LA, Dallas, NJ) there is also usually an accompanying "locals only" stipulation. Ahh, to be local where there happens to be an AS/400 job opening. What a trick. I finally sold my home in December so am free to move elsewhere, and actually want to move elsewhere , listed myself on Dice for consulting or hire and applied aggressively for anything I could identify, but to this point there's been very little job action. My last job was three years at a retailer, before that four years at a pharmaceutical wholesaler, but I wouldn't have been in position to get those jobs had it not been for the exposure I got breaking into the AS/400 in consulting work. On the one hand I'm loyal, on the other there's only so much money companies can dump into large development projects before they need to have something that works and cut back the development costs. rd

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            • #21
              Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

              Ralph, Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that the midwest, Chicago area, was a midrange hotbed. Certainly here on the west coast there are a lot of iSeries installs. I just went through the hiring process (I added two new programming positions, one a manager) and will seldom look at a candidate more than 40 miles away. I prefer someone that doesn't have a long commute. The job market is such that I don't have to pay for relocation and thus don't look at out of towners. If you have a friend in another area, such as So Cal, try using their home address as a base. If you find a position nearby then you can move to that city and start work. You can explain that you intend to move and that relocation is not an issue. Other alternatives are: - Take the plunge and move to another area where there are more jobs that fit your talents. That's a tough one. I know I'd have to reflect hard on that before doing it. - Take a different plunge and learn new skils. Unfortunately this may require some "starting over" which means lower pay. I can sympathize with you as I was out of work about 4.5 years ago and struggled with all of the internal doubts and conflicting thoughts. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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              • #22
                Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                Chicago is a relative hotbed due to SSA and BPCS. It also has SSA'a BPCS ex-employees and contractors, so I'm sure there's no shortage of RPG programmers. I have had two interviews this year, both I arranged for ahead of time by moving to the area and staying with friends/family, one in Florida and one in another city in Ohio. I was fully moved and ready to go to work, but still that wasn't good enough, not when they have multiple people with long time ties to area employers to choose from. But I spent the money to do it so I could list my address as local in good faith and be there for the duration as you are considered and hopefully hired. It also takes a heck of a good friend or family member to do this, and you don't have any choice where they live and where the odd position is advertised. Yeah, I saw the ads for your company, part of the many I see from socal, but what a change there has been. Five years ago recruiters were telling me programmers were trying to go to the midwest from socal to get a job and asking me if I knew of anything. I'm glad it picked up there, but I sure don't have the money to just move somewhere and hope I get hired, and I don't happen to have any family/friends there, much less within 40 miles of any random opening. I did apply for several jobs there in the last year and a half and listed socal as my preference on Dice last year. I have made a point to point out when applying that there is no relocation cost for me, and my salary is the low end of anything being mentioned. So we're supposed to live somewhere and whatever jobs happen to be available in the area that's what we become? I don't blame AS/400 IT managers, they have several good qualified people to choose from for any position, and are dealing with people recommended by their staff or others in the community. They are making good choices and godspeed to them. There's just way more people available than jobs. Another field? Yeah, that's what I posted. It's midnight for me on the AS/400. I write in Java everyday now for my own projects while I job hunt in RPG, and someday I'll start job hunting in Java. But the jobs will still be where I'm not unless I just move somewhere and live in a cardboard box. rd

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                • #23
                  Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                  Hi cdr, Thanks for the helpful suggestions from you and Chuck. I'm too far into this to change horses now. I just turned 53 and programming is all I've ever done. I couldn't convince someone I was changing careers if I tried, and I wouldn't want to deceive someone that I wouldn't take a programming job if one came along in any event. Obviously, I've done everything I can to get IBM to replace the 5250 with an enhanced GUI interface to save my worthless careeer, but to no avail. Whatever they're calling it now and whatever they're trying to sell it for, it's not the RPG custom application server of my career. So, ok, I move on. I've done a lot of research and I do think Java is the present and the future of business software. I'm happy with my progress in it, I just completed writing the game logic of Double Deck Pinochle in Java with interface independence which makes it suitable to fill seats on game boards as needed. I'll now be doing GUI interface work and then hosting on my site, After that I have a lot of other things I want to do. At what point will I be good enough to go after Java jobs? I don't know, I haven't even monitored Java jobs, but I need to complete some more projects in it before seeking a certification or a job. Sure, in the meantime everyone coming out of college is trained in Java and employers prefer them anyway. Will I even get another job in computers again? I don't know. I'll just keep writing and producing something of value until I generate something out of it. Thanks again, I think we had some good ideas. I wish IBM had listened and responded to us. rd

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                  • #24
                    Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                    Ralph asked: "At what point will I be good enough to go after Java jobs? I don't know, I haven't even monitored Java jobs, but I need to complete some more projects in it before seeking a certification or a job." At the point that you can write a program in a reasonable time. You have an advantage over the recent college grads in that you understand how business works. The programming language is just the tool to implement business solutions. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                    • #25
                      Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                      Ralph Daugherty wrote: > city in Ohio. What part of Ohio are you in? jc

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                      • #26
                        Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                        Chuck Ackerman said the following on 4/8/2005 10:45 AM: > I can sympathize with you as I was out of work about 4.5 years ago > and struggled with all of the internal doubts and conflicting > thoughts. I hope this isn't too personal, but may I ask which of the options you recommended to Ralph you chose for yourself? --buck

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                        • #27
                          Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                          Buck asked: "I hope this isn't too personal, but may I ask which of the options you recommended to Ralph you chose for yourself?" Not at all. I actually did some consulting installing and maintaining LANs. I toyed with the idea of doing this for a living but felt that crawling under desks and in attics would get old after a while. Being in management is a curse and a blessing. There are certainly fewer positions for managers than there are for programmers. However, I've managed AS/400s, LANs, PC servers, Linux servers and Solaris servers so my base is pretty broad. I love the AS/400 but if push came to shove I'd be in a non-AS/400 shop. I just happened to be a lucky one and saw an ad in the L.A. Times and found a job at a great AS/400 shop. I couldn't have planned for better circumstances, as it turned out. But, during periods of unemployment a lot of scenarios are played out. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                            Hi Jeff, I sold my house in Columbus and moved my stuff to a friend's house in the Cincinnati-Dayton area. I also spent a month or so in Florida this winter job hunting, and am free to move whereever I need to. My email is ralph@ee.net if anyone wants to contact me. regards, Ralph

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                            • #29
                              Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                              Ralph, I was born and raised in the suburbs of Cincinnati (White Oak and Mt. Healthy). Most of my relatives live in that area. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Ralph Daugherty" wrote in message news:6b22cb3a.33@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Hi Jeff, > > I sold my house in Columbus and moved my stuff to a friend's house in the > Cincinnati-Dayton area. I also spent a month or so in Florida this winter > job hunting, and am free to move whereever I need to. > > My email is ralph@ee.net if anyone wants to contact me. > > regards, > Ralph

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                              • #30
                                Thanks to all who participated in Java vs CGI

                                Hey, it's been a lively discussion on the topic of Java vs. CGI. I'm glad we had multiple "experts" who know their sides well to participate. It was a little one sided there for a while. In any event, it's been an enlightening experience. I'm glad to know that the path that I have chosen is consistent and will scale just fine. I'm also glad to know that it has been confirmed that the TCO for the solution I chose is tremendously lower in terms of training and CPW costs. I appreciate all your help. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

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