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"Let the 400 do what it is best at..." Hi Joel, Nice post. I'd just like to throw in that I think the power of screen exchanges with subfile support are often lost in discusssions of the AS/400, with too much emphasis on database I/O (and not even record level at that, but SQL) and not enough appreciation for job management and an efficient interface. The AS/400 people do emphasize those things while working at bringing a competitive interface to this machine. It's the others who reluctantly will use the AS/400 as a database server since the data is on it, at least until they can change that, and they will. We need a complete solution, not some role as a "database server", if we are to survive and thrive. Nice points. Good questions, Joel. Ralph
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DB2, Java, Tomcat...who could ask for anything more?
The seminar in Richmond must have presented a convincing picture. Don Denoncourt must be good, and members of this community know that Joe Pluta mixes clear expression with the powerful combination of intelligence, reason, and passion. With people like that promoting Java, its future looks bright. But I prefer the iSeries Integrated Language Environment generally, and RPG specifically. I put a high value on application performance and personal productivity. In my experience, ILE and RPG deliver that better than Java related methodologies that I've studied. It's impossible to define boundaries for either Java or ILE, because in reality, they overlap on this computer. I think there's room in this world for both, but I needed to choose one or the other. I'd like to emphasize again that I support the model-view-controller design that was apparently covered in the seminar. Some people take it to an extreme; the result of which is a proliferation of tiny components that add unnecessary complexity. I think that ILE offers the ability to adopt MVC just a fully as Java, except that all the components must reside on the iSeries. With Java, there's opportunity move the "presentation controller" to an Intel server. Is that a good thing? Frankly I don't know. I think that in the Omaha Steaks case raised by Alex Garrison, some layer in that n-tier design caused a bottleneck. It wasn't CPU power that caused an $8,000 Intel computer to provide the same level of performance as a $200,000 RS/6000. I suspect the bottleneck was part of the communication between the system that hosted the web site, and the back-end database that was hosted on an AS/400. It may be an irony that the Java software vendor who provided the middleware to connect the two systems also caused the bottleneck. This same scenario has been played out any number of times with vendors who relied on ODBC to connect Microsoft Clients with a back-end database servers. In my opinion, all those things that make the iSeries great for hosting a database, also make it great for developing and hosting various application services as well. I chose to build an ILE framework to facilitate server development. That's where I put my money. By making that decision, I don't face any questions (or dilemmas) about which Java IDE or runtime environment to develop or deploy under. ILE and RPG are iSeries specific. The reward for reducing complexity is, once again performance and personal productivity. Nathan. -
DB2, Java, Tomcat...who could ask for anything more?
I wish I had such a luxury as to attend one of Mr. Denoncourt's seminars. I too have been coming around in my understanding of MVC and other concepts. This is only thru my frequent reading of MC and posts on various forums. I must admit that I have been reluctant to let go of my idea that the world must revolve around the '400. Yes there are other machines that offer things (good things) that the '400 doesn't. I'm talking about things like GUI and consistent development environments for GUI. I concur with the statement "let the AS400 do what it does best." I don't think it's just good as a database server, though. I guess my picture of an ideal world would be well designed RPGLE apps all with externalized db IO encapsulated by individual modules which in turn could feed Java communication objects that could service external web apps over the corporate intranet. The RPG apps could function as most legacy apps do to provide rapid means of file maintenance and warehouse related tasks. The web apps could be written in HTML using the services of custom JSP tag libraries or embedded beans that made sense to even the most inexperienced web designer. This would be a world where designing extensible interfaces to existing programmtic functionality is the primary focus rather than language syntax and specifications. Am I dreaming? Maybe. Then again I like this idea because I've been able to implement it a little with ILE. I design interfaces that are comprehensive enough for even the most old fashioned RPG programmer to run with. I guess that's enough breeze shooting for now. Gotta get back to work.Comment
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DB2, Java, Tomcat...who could ask for anything more?
I had the fortunate opportunity last Friday to attend Don Denoncourt's seminar in Richmond VA on Java for RPG programmers. And I am glad that I did... I have been struggling trying to get a hold of some of the concepts that frequently get bandied about here like separating business logic and presentation. I've been reading Mr. Pluta's book he LOVES it when i call him 'Mr.'!
, trying to get the whole "Server/Client" architecture into my head. Now there's a few new things in the mix... 1. I'm very interested in encapsulating all database access by file to individual programs. 2. We need (for the company's sake) to be able to implement IDB in the next year. (IDB is what we are calling our vision - Interchangeable Data Bases). 3. I need a GUI to keep up with our competitors. And not a screen scraper... MCV. Mediator:Controller:Viewer. OOP. Now I understand. I'm ready to move forward. I'm a little scared... According to what I heard on Friday, I can do this all with Java. I don't even need to install Java on the 400 (in fact, I can't do GUI there anyway, right?). And all the tools are free as long as I avoid IBM. How did we ever come to this? Why must I feel like I have to avoid IBM? Someone tell me where the future of our beloved machine lies? If I go forward with this plan, will it be relegated to a mere Database Server (albeit the best in the world)? Maybe this isn't terrible. Let the 400 do what it is best at... I don't know if what I'm feeling are growing pains or guilt pangs. Not sure if I made a point, not sure if I meant to. I guess that's why they call it "Shootin' the Breeze..." Joel
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