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  • #1

    jobs site

    Why not post the hyperlink?
    "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.-1@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
    I have often mentioned an AS/400 jobs site I worked on, even earlier today as a matter of fact. If you happen to run across a new AS/400 jobs site on the net somewhere, that's the one I've been talking about. It just went into service. That's the stability of AS/400 messaging servers, only 12,000 lines of RPG in all (as well as a few thousand lines Java admin server written by a colleague), that I wrote almost a year ago and has required no change since then even as screens were tweaked. Ralph

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  • #2
    jobs site

    It's a competitive site, Nathan. I wouldn't want to encourage the good people here to go slumming.... Ralph

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    • #3
      jobs site

      I was just joking, Nathan. It's the "other" rag, as they say.... Ralph

      Comment

      • #4
        jobs site

        Oh, the JOBS400 site? You might want to check it before you hang your haton it, Ralph... it's a bit buggy.
        For example, you hit the tiny little right-arrow button to go to the next page, then hit the Back button, and you get a "Page Expired" message.
        Joe
        "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.2@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
        I was just joking, Nathan. It's the "other" rag, as they say.... Ralph

        Comment

        • #5
          jobs site

          I've always got that error, Joe. They say that "bookmarks" aren't supported, which apparently sometimes includes the Back button. That's something I have no control over in the site architecture, page expirations, etc., and don't know enough about the details to comment on. During testing some browsers always worked and some failed, even very close versions of IE. I did some research and wrote up recommendations to apply to the Strategi web server, but I have no idea if they acted on it. I can't quite tell if they are saying in the error message to only use internal hyperlinks and not the Back button, but then they provide a little Back icon which, of course, fails! I can tell you that the error identification comes from me in the ILE RPG. Essentially the web page has lost identity at that point and is an unidentified, unsecure web page and therefore data is not passed to me that is in the id database. They really are going to have to fix that or just acknowledge that the Back button doesn't work, in which case maybe perform the sin of temporarily disabling the Back button. Either way they're going to tick people off. Personally, I think that they thought it's not as widespread a problem as I indicated to them last year. I did refer to my research from memory in this forum a few times ago in discussions related to page expiration, meta-directives, and browser secutity though, so it helped me! I click Back a second time which takes you up another level..... Ralph

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          • #6
            jobs site

            Joe, re-reading your post I see specifically right arrow clicked. When a right arrow is clicked, a left arrow becomes enabled which is supposed to be used to return to listing. I believe data is expired immediately, and the RPG code is called on a left arrow and actually looks up the previous x number of records (not guaranteed to be same as just viewed based on interim activity) and a new list generated and sent down versus just viewing the data that was in the previous page. This is as you have described so well in the past, Joe, carrying previous and next keys along in message, etc. Ralph

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            • #7
              jobs site

              The site looks good, Ralph. And it's nice to have such a high-profile customer. I wondered if Joe Pluta was joking about the page expiration message. Most Web applications I've seen expire pages immediately. I just thought that was standard. IE just says to click the button.
              "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.2@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
              I was just joking, Nathan. It's the "other" rag, as they say.... Ralph

              Comment

              • #8
                jobs site

                glad you liked it, Nathan. I am very pleased there's an AS/400 served web site that shows robust functionality in web pages, and simultaneously any mixture of green screen screens, batch programs, and client/server programs invoking the messaging processing with dataq's, providing data population with business functions in servers written in ILE RPG and RPG III and Java (and any other language as well) to help demonstrate that we need take a back seat to no one in web serving. When this site is well populated, the power of dataq server programs performing matches against criteria and full text word searches in RPG record level I/O will show world class scalability. And the beauty of it is that's how all of our AS/400 programs work... Ralph

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                • #9
                  jobs site

                  my wording is misleading... I meant the job site functionality is robust, and all done in web pages, which are decent but don't match the robustness of heavy duty Javascript enhanced web pages, obviouly... Ralph

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                  • #10
                    jobs site

                    No, Nathan, I'm not joking. If you have more than one page of data, there's a little "forward" arrow, which is a triangle. If you hit that button, the next page comes up. At the bottom of that page is another little button that's marked "Back". If you hit it, you get "page expired". This is not the browser's back button, it's a separate widget, specifically added to support a Javascript "self.history.back()" function, which in turn doesn't work because the page is expired. There's no reason for the button (especially since there's a serviceable "backward" arrow at the top).
                    I don't mind the concept that the browser "Back" button doesn't work and you get the Page Expired message. But to put a widget on the screen that goes nowhere but to a "Page Expired" screen is a different issue. It's the kind of thing that makes people with GUI experience shake their heads and say, "See, that's what you get with an AS/400."
                    It's kind of sad, actually, that an AS/400 shop would put out something with so obvious and unnecessary a flaw. It took me 15 seconds to find it, and would take probably 30 seconds to remove. Yet nobody thought to put one extra minute into the testing. That's the kind of programming that we simply wouldn't allow out the door 15 years ago. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but untested code is unacceptable, no matter how pretty it looks.
                    Joe
                    The site looks good, Ralph. And it's nice to have such a high-profile customer. I wondered if Joe Pluta was joking about the page expiration message. Most Web applications I've seen expire pages immediately. I just thought that was standard. IE just says to click the button.
                    "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.2@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
                    I was just joking, Nathan. It's the "other" rag, as they say.... Ralph

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      jobs site

                      don't you think that backward arrow should be at the bottom as well, Joe, instead of the Back button? I will e-mail the web page developers and suggest that. The problem is that it worked just fine in the developer's copies of IE. They never saw "Page Expired". I did, and when they started testing with others they ran across other random browsers, IE and Netscape, that failed also. I have no idea how one copy of IE with nearly identical (or same) version number could fail while others worked, and I wasn't around after that to know what was determined. This included the Back button everywhere for me, Joe, not just in that certain combination following the right arrow. The basic concept that was conveyed to me was that navigation would take place with links, which of course do work, and which I use instead of the Back button. But given I'm on yet another version of IE a year later and it's failing, clearly they shouldn't have a Back button glyph. For that matter, it makes no sense to list previous with a backward button at the top and a Back button at the bottom anyway. The app was tested heavily by among others yours truly, Joe, but the Back button not working was pointed out by me from day one of development, and it wasn't until three months later when I was done writing it and performing final testing that a browser on another laptop used in testing by someone else also failed. I don't know if it's universal failure at this point or just what the deal is... Ralph

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                      • #12
                        jobs site

                        Page expired on IE5.0. Page expired on IE4.0. The thing doesn't work at all with Opera (I get "unable to access resource", or something to that effect). Might want to try Netscape, but three out of three is good enough for me to call it "broke". Of course, one out of three was good enough ten years ago. Things change.
                        In fact, let me get this straight - you knew there was an error, and it happened repeatedly. When another machine didn't fail (even though yours still did), that made it acceptable and the application now passed QA.That would have never happened in my shop. And regardless of who made that decision, the fact that it didn't work while you were testing it makes it purely and squarely your responsibility. Either that, or you and I have a different understanding of the words "quality", "assurance" and "responsibility".
                        But this shouldn't be a slam specifically on you, Ralph. Unfortunately, in this day of point-and-click, get it out the door programming, there are fewer and fewer developers who understand how to use those three words in a sentence, probably because the phrase "90-day bottom line" won't fit in that sentence very well.
                        Joe
                        "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.10@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
                        don't you think that backward arrow should be at the bottom as well, Joe, instead of the Back button? I will e-mail the web page developers and suggest that. The problem is that it worked just fine in the developer's copies of IE. They never saw "Page Expired". I did, and when they started testing with others they ran across other random browsers, IE and Netscape, that failed also. I have no idea how one copy of IE with nearly identical (or same) version number could fail while others worked, and I wasn't around after that to know what was determined. This included the Back button everywhere for me, Joe, not just in that certain combination following the right arrow. The basic concept that was conveyed to me was that navigation would take place with links, which of course do work, and which I use instead of the Back button. But given I'm on yet another version of IE a year later and it's failing, clearly they shouldn't have a Back button glyph. For that matter, it makes no sense to list previous with a backward button at the top and a Back button at the bottom anyway. The app was tested heavily by among others yours truly, Joe, but the Back button not working was pointed out by me from day one of development, and it wasn't until three months later when I was done writing it and performing final testing that a browser on another laptop used in testing by someone else also failed. I don't know if it's universal failure at this point or just what the deal is... Ralph

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                        • #13
                          jobs site

                          the web pages and Java admin server portion were developed by an outstanding programmer named Lisa who knew next to nothing about the AS/400. She's an AIX wienie who in general did a very good job of developing the web pages, I think, but she wouldn't know a green screen if she was staring at it. Her experience was with shell command line, and she developed the Java on the AS/400's shell environment (but she edited code on PC and uploaded - she may be a Unix wienie but there's a limit.... . Ralph

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                          • #14
                            jobs site

                            mmm, that's a good one Joe.... I report the problem from day one, insist that if I'm failing others will fail, and research the problem and write up suggestions for the Strategi developers to take concerning page expirations, and that isn't good enough for you? You think maybe I was keeping it to myself because I'm so bashful? lol Ralph

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                            • #15
                              jobs site

                              Ralph, here's my position. You may not agree. But to me, it's not enough to point out a problem and walk away. Sorry. That's the "it's no longer my job" syndrome, and it's the root cause of a LOT of problems, not just in our industry. The fact that you knew there was a problem and decided not to pursue it, for whatever reason, is a philosophical position that I can't agree with. I certainly wouldn't want anyone on my team that would walk away from a problem because somebody else told him to forget it. That's how bad software gets shipped.
                              If you really love this industry and this profession, you just don't ship bad code. Maybe I'm a hopeless purist in this, but whenever someone pointed out a bug in our software, we fixed it. We didn't say it was someone else's fault, or point out how bad other people's code was, or blame the client or the end user. We fixed the code. Because that was our job.
                              Joe
                              "Ralph Daugherty" <ralph@ee.net> wrote in message news:1df7d500.13@WebX.WawyahGHajS...
                              mmm, that's a good one Joe.... I report the problem from day one, insist that if I'm failing others will fail, and research the problem and write up suggestions for the Strategi developers to take concerning page expirations, and that isn't good enough for you? You think maybe I was keeping it to myself because I'm so bashful? lol Ralph

                              Comment

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