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Just curious: where in the world did you run into Clarion ? bobh
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Chuck - Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed, thoughtful response to my questions. Your response is very helpful to me. It will be helpful to others as well. I have printed out your response and some others for discussion at my site. Thanks again! -
Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
I've only got a few minutes to post a quick note here, I've got to take a dip in lake billg and cleanse myself of impure thoughts of M$, then write a killer .Net app that secures a PC with Hailstorm until successful authentication to Passport... oops, they won't be able to use their PC for a few days.... LOL Now, to take my previous post and apply function to it, one thoughtful move would be to take the WP users which are too expensive to give Word and Excel to and give them Corel WordPerfect Office at 1/4 price, with the added benefits of them continuing to use the WP keystrokes that they want yet generate Word 97 formatted files for exchange of documents throughout your organization and beyond. Some might call that religion. Others might call it smart. M$ was always pricey. but now M$ shops will have some tough decisions to make. If you don't upgrade to Windows XP and Office XP this fall, you'll never upgrade again. Nope, you'll start over and buy at full list price. Oh, and that SQL Server? Sorry, the upgrade won't cover it. You'll need a separate pricey license for SQL Server now. Some might call that setting the hook and reeling them in. Others might call it religion. Oh, and that oddball StarOffice. No, I wasn't talking about the occasional out of control user going off in their own direction. I was talking about an intelligent manager considering the cost effectiveness of the function that StarOffice performs on both Windows and Linux, such as the Department of Defense just did with 25,000 seats. Yep, they sure are stupid to overlook that open source StarOffice just disappearing somewhere and not being around anymore, now that we know that Bill's .Net is going to scour the Internet and eradicate every copy of StarOffice source in the world... including the copies that IBM provides in the Linux partitions on the AS/400... once they get that darn .Net working... RalphComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
I recently saw a pie chart showing that Linux had about 30% of servers and of course this is coming out of M$ and not Sun. Another thing is the number of Novell things still around. The 400 wasn't mentioned of course. It will be interesting to see how the DUBYA AG deals with the latest gambit from 'Slick Willie" Gates and his XP/whatever's next. bobhComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Believe it or not, there are several functions in Lotus 1-2-3 that are not available, or do not work as well, or do not work the same way in MS Excel. This is particularly germaine if macros are being used. Accountants, and accounting types who use 1-2-3 are adamantly reluctant to switch to any other product simply because it suits some other department. Establishing desktop standards must be done delicately, or it may set off CYA memos, and in the battle of CYA memo wars, finance will win over IT. DaveComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Ralph,I think it makes a lot of sense for the defense department to use StarOffice for their desktop office package for3 reasons:1. There's no money left in their budget after purchasing $500 hammers.2. It's the government. They never have to worry about retraining employees because they never leave. Why? They're overpaid civil servants and they couldn't find a comparable job in the private sector for the same money.3. It's the government. We're used to the U.S. government, especially theDepartment of Defense,making oddball decisions.I think you've reinforced my original argument. ;-)chuckOpinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer."Ralph Daugherty" <Ralph_Daugherty@forums.midrangecomputing.com> wrote in message news:1ece3638.2@WebX.WawyahGHajS...Oh, and that oddball StarOffice. No, I wasn't talking about the occasional out of control user going off in their own direction. I was talking about an intelligent manager considering the cost effectiveness of the function that StarOffice performs on both Windows and Linux, such as the Department of Defense just did with 25,000 seats. Yep, they sure are stupid to overlook that open source StarOffice just disappearing somewhere and not being around anymore, now that we know that Bill's .Net is going to scour the Internet and eradicate every copy of StarOffice source in the world... including the copies that IBM provides in the Linux partitions on the AS/400... once they get that darn .Net working... RalphComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Fair enough, Chuck. The DoD also makes wide use of Unix and Linux as well as Windows, and StarOffice is a M$ format compatible cross platform Office product that has the added advantage of being open source and free, in addition to Linux. This is the opposite of a $500 hammer. This is smart non-use of taxpayer money. More than one company will forego the onerous upgrade demands of M$ XP and run Linux and StarOffice or Corel WordPerfect Office on their current PC's (XP is said to require the latest PC's). I predict that Europeans, being much more technically savvy and cost efficient than Americans (think Roman Empire, and the decline thereof), and not being in any mood to dial into Redmond to boot up, will migrate to Linux in droves. I just bought Kylix this weekend. Kylix will change everything. M$ knew this was coming, and hired the entire Delphi team (15 people, including the C# architect) away from Borland, to no avail. Delphi cross platform will place so many apps on Linux that Gates will think a tidal wave bounced Building 9 against the Cascades. RalphComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Ralph Daugherty wrote: Kylix will change everything Isn't that what they said about PL/I, the MCI-bus, and the Cadillac 4-6-8 engine? DaveComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
Ralph,I agree with you that Microsoft is moving into dangerous territory with the new product licensing and when it comes time to upgrade we'll have to take a serious look at possible alternatives. However, most of our users are on Office 97 and very happy. I doubt an upgrade will be happening soon. I suspect that many customers are in the same position as us. Microsoft is currently just floating trial balloons. They often do that. (In fact, most big companies such as IBM do that also. Look at the current "no more free Websphere" trial balloon from IBM. IBM will has already backed off, offering a substitute.) We'll see ifMS actually implements the new licensing and, if so, for how long.I never put new releases of Microsoft products into anyproduction environmentfor 6-12 months after debut anyway. Just as I never put a new version of OS/400 on for 6 months minimum.chuckOpinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer."Ralph Daugherty" <Ralph_Daugherty@forums.midrangecomputing.com> wrote in message news:1ece3638.6@WebX.WawyahGHajS...Fair enough, Chuck. The DoD also makes wide use of Unix and Linux as well as Windows, and StarOffice is a M$ format compatible cross platform Office product that has the added advantage of being open source and free, in addition to Linux. This is the opposite of a $500 hammer. This is smart non-use of taxpayer money. More than one company will forego the onerous upgrade demands of M$ XP and run Linux and StarOffice or Corel WordPerfect Office on their current PC's (XP is said to require the latest PC's). I predict that Europeans, being much more technically savvy and cost efficient than Americans (think Roman Empire, and the decline thereof), and not being in any mood to dial into Redmond to boot up, will migrate to Linux in droves. I just bought Kylix this weekend. Kylix will change everything. M$ knew this was coming, and hired the entire Delphi team (15 people, including the C# architect) away from Borland, to no avail. Delphi cross platform will place so many apps on Linux that Gates will think a tidal wave bounced Building 9 against the Cascades. RalphComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
David,When I was a student at UCLA they only taught PL/1 and PL/C in the lower division classes. After all, they said, Fortran and Cobol were a thing of the past. ;-)chuckOpinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer."David Abramowitz" <David_Abramowitz@forums.midrangecomputing.com> wrote in message news:1ece3638.7@WebX.WawyahGHajS...Ralph Daugherty wrote: Kylix will change everything Isn't that what they said about PL/I, the MCI-bus, and the Cadillac 4-6-8 engine? DaveComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
whooo! PL/I? the Caddy? and IBM's MCA bus in the PS/2? That's IBM and GM saying it'll change everything. And revolution doesn't come from big business. (For example, IBM would seem to be revolutionary in backing Linux and talking open source, but in reality trying to tie everything into a proprietary, closed source Websphere. Nothing wromg with making money, but nothing revolutionary there. Who wouldn't want every business user in the world to pay $450 per server connection they're using? (think many instances of servers here, for example, at least one per computer, in IBM's vision of Websphere required to run every program on every computer in the world.) C changed everything, not PL/I. (Yeah, it was from Bell Labs but a skunkworks project. And AT&T never said it would change anything. That's the first clue.) I briefly had a '59 caddy before I went into the war, and I didn't know they ever came with anything but a V-8. Come on. We're talking tail fins that held rocket boosters to get that tank rolling. The MCA bus was hilarious. I personally blew Boca out of the water on that one. It was fall '88, and Time Customer Service in Tampa had committed to bar coding all the AFP Sweepstakes returns that were mailed out at Xmas (several million are mailed back by that magical January 27th date). IBM and Time had a big team, big deal project to do it with the brand new PS/2's. (We at Z-Soft had written some of the first VGA drivers that gave IBM something to show at the announcement in spring '87. I was locked up in a room with PS/2's for a few months before that and sworn to secrecy. My, how times have changed.) Anyway, the IBMer's couldn't get their OCR/bar code scanning to work, and the MCA bus apparently was the culprit, but who knew. IBM's MCA bus designers were flown in to try to figure out how to scan, for goodness sakes. Time Inc. got desperate come about September, when they literally had nothing but meeting notes and consultant bills and had to have a delivered system well before Xmas. I was hanging out on the beach, having dropped out of programming since no one wanted 8086 anymore, when I saw a little ad that said assembler. Went in, got an AT, had an 8 port serial board delivered overnight, and had eight 9600 baud scanners displaying into eight areas on the screen in two days. I went on and wrote the whole thing myself and they sent the Boca boys home. Dozens of temps processed all the mail on lowly 10 Mhz off brand AT's instead of the gloriously extravagent, overpriced, at the top of their arrogance IBM PS/2 model 80's. Well, nobody ever said IBM could write software. RalphComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
We also are on Office 97, Chuck, and the surveys (not the 30% Linux surveys, the 5% Linux surveys
say most people are. Very few are on Office 2000, and the rest are on Office 95. I agree there's no reason to upgrade, which is the whole problem. That's the reason for the upgrade or buy new ultimatum. And you're right. Microsoft backed off yesterday and delayed until March 1 the ultimatum which had been October 1, and as a result Gartner said today they have never seen M$'s customer base so angry. And maybe so what? When we buy again, we look at what's available and what the proces is, etc., and who knows what will happen in two years. However, there are quotes that irreparable damage has been done, and in addition to the week long Passport fiasco, I feel that no one will ever quite trust being locked into Microsoft again. Not that you aren't right about the consistency and training issues and overall value for the money, but that was then and M$ appears dead set to overcome the fact that upgrades indeed aren't needed now and may not be needed for quite awhile. Ralph
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
I wrote: "and the MCA bus apparently was the culprit, but who knew..." Actually, the culprit was probably their new PS/2 Arctic multi-serial port board, but it didn't do any good for Boca to send those guys either... Ralph
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
FYI, The caddy engine was introduced in the late seventies as an "innovative" approach to gas crunch of the time. The vehicle would operate on 4 or 6 or 8 cylinders depending upon conditions. The concept was great, unfortunately GM stuck buyers with beta models. The damn thing just wouldn't work in 6 cylinder mode, and you could not control what mode the engine was in. Any Caddy extant with this engine is now a museum piece. BTW, GM is about to introduce new vehicles using the same concept. This time GM says they did it right...........Yeah. But it's gonna change everything! DaveComment
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Use of Microsoft products in your shop?
XP is signaling to me it's time to look at changing buses. In the next 3-6 months we will be evaluating a switch from M$. What are the three leading office suites in terms of MKT share? (excluding M$) Of the three, rank in feature richness/ability to replace M$. Rank the three in future MKT share 3 years from now. These seem to be the questions we all will want to know. The three players seem to be: Lotus Smart Suite, COREL WordPerfect Office, and Star Office. If there are any PC mag shootouts of these three could someone let me know the name and date? TxComment
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