Tweet
I think I know what you are talking about. IBM claims to offer substantial discounts on Non-Interactive models (The new name for server models - - Interactive models are the former "System" models). OTOH, one could easily say that IBM charges a 90% premium for interactive processing. Since most shops require this feature, IBM cleans up. A side note: It is unfortunate that IBM was able to sell so many non-interactive models to shops that really required the interactive models. IBM did this by talking around the people who really knew what the requirements were. Purchasing and other departments patted themselves on the back for saving so much money. In some cases it was politically incorrect to say that a mistake was made. Now back to your problem. Easily solved - Buy Used!!! Unless you are currently using the highest of models, you can more than likely increase your processing power, while at the same time save money. I know that if my CISC based clients ever decide to upgrade, I can obtain a model 6xx or even a 7xx for a small fraction of the original price. My client running a 620 need not move to an 820 if it is not an absolute requirement. A used 640 would quintuple the processing power while still running the latest OS. There is a lot of room for variation here. Dave
-
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
"I think I know what you are talking about." ---------------------------------------------- You did and thanks for your reply. Brian Singleton refers to the "green-screen tax" in the July 2001 issue of Midrange Computing magazine in his "From The Editor" column titled "Is WebSphere Inevitable?". He refers to it as "another prod toward WebSphere". I'm currently in no hurry to switch to WebSphere, but I was wondering what, if anything, my RPG oriented shop should be doing now to avoid any future tax. Maybe we should all sign a petition asking IBM for a reduction in the tax rate. After all, the Federal Government is doing it. "Buy Used!!!" - Hmmm - I will keep that in mind. What are some of the rest of you doing to dodge this tax? I, for one, don't like the idea of being a volunteer tax payer and do support ideas such as "The Boston Tea Party". -
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
What are some of the rest of you doing to dodge this tax?
I bought the biggest machine with the best BASE interactive feature for the least money. Here was my thinking: I'm going to need at least 35 CPW-I and would prefer more. Ineed to have a machine that can be expanded if necessary. The choices came down to either a 720,730, or a 740. If I went to a 720, I could get a 70/240 for 51k and a P20 group, or a 35/240 and a P10. The 35/240 probably would have caused CFINT problems often, so the 70/240 would have been a better choice. But since interactive reduces batch numbers, the 70/240 is really a 70/170 machine. If I went to a 730, I could get a 70/560 for 41k and a P20. This would give me the same interactive, but more than twice the batch for less money than the 720. If I went to a 740, I could get a 120/3660 for 249k and a P40. Clearly out of the ballpark. The decision? The 730. The caveat? If I ever need to upgrade, it gets expensive fast. To get an increase in interactive, it will cost 115k and a jump to a P30 software level. That's twice the machine's original cost and an increase in the software cost. BillComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Bill gently introduced us to the world of buying an AS/400 with: "If I went to a 720, I could get a 70/240 for 51k and a P20 group, or a 35/240 and a P10. The 35/240 probably would have caused CFINT problems often, so the 70/240 would have been a better choice. But since interactive reduces batch numbers, the 70/240 is really a 70/170 machine." There is no way a person who didn't already have an AS/400 would go through this. And a lot of them won't either. RalphComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Ralph Daugherty wrote: There is no way a person who didn't already have an AS/400 would go through this. And a lot of them won't either. This gets a lot worse on HP-UX or SOLARIS or other Unix platforms. With NT servers get added and replaced every few months rather than once every five years. It is confusing, and IBM does not help the matter any. OTOH Dr. Pangloss is in charge when it comes to AS/400/I-Series purchasing. DaveComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
David wrote: "This gets a lot worse on HP-UX or SOLARIS or other Unix platforms. With NT servers get added and replaced every few months rather than once every five years." With the NT, the upgrade is to more cost effective. very simple, very straight forward, and obviously everyone is happy. I've not heard of anything of the like for Unix servers. Buying an HP9000 to run HP-UX can't possibly have the gobbldeygook I read concerning the AS/400. I mean, yeah, there's different models andprice points, but nobody else but IBM with a captive audience, (read AS/400, not RS6000) could attempt to pull such nonsense. And the sales will continue to reflect that. You think 25% drop is a glitch, it's just the beginning. I work for big shops, and whatever the big models cost they cost. They're worth it. They're mainframes. Whatever IBM is trying to accomplish with the artificially low prices (compared to their normal cost) to compete against whomever can't possibly be getting enough sales to compensate for the damage they've done their image and their customers. Either an AS/400 is worth it or it isn't, but this nonsense about batch versus interactive has got to stop or we might as well just put ourselves in the Wang / Vax category. Good machines with good people who are riding off into the sunset. RalphComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
While we're not quite in the Wang/Vax category, we are in the Apple category (although IBM doesn't have an inspiring leader as Apple does in Jobs). Face it, we are a diehard religion that is dying.Comment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Nicely said, Mike. RalphComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Ralph Daugherty wrote: Buying an HP9000 to run HP-UX can't possibly have the gobbldeygook I read concerning the AS/400. Interesting you brought up this particular model specifically. I can address this first hand. Any LAN you may have is totally separate from the HP9000 purchase. So are disk drives. I mention this, because my former client had to wait three months after the initial HP9000 installation because there was no way to connect to a "Banyan Vines" Network, and the purchased disk drives were incompatible with the unit. Things really started going ascew when Oracle was installed. After all settled down, the box would typically go down five times a day. Each time there was a circle of vendor finger pointing. Each claiming it was not their product causing the outage. As time went by, there were more problems with other separate hardware and software components. I was not on the team that made the purchase, but it appeared that they were purchasing pieces of a jig-saw puzzle one at a time. I do agree with you about stopping the interactive/non-interactive mess. In order to obtain the non-interactive models, IBM deliberately debilitates the processor(s). This is like charging extra for the salt-free version of packaged food. DaveComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Dave wrote: "After all settled down, the box would typically go down five times a day. Each time there was a circle of vendor finger pointing." And indeed, Dave, the integration and engineering does make the AS/400 worth it, and with Unix you do have a hundred pieces of hardware and software to glue together. (That's part of M$ appeal (no pun intended) one set of integrated software - M$ shops are very happy to be all M$ and pay the premium price for it, out IBM'ing IBM at this point - on the other hand, M$ licensing policies are getting to be similar to what I'm talking about, and there'll be a backlash there too.) But those Unix vendors are going to package everything at least to the degree of the AS/400 and a major AS/400 ERP app (where the Unix app will include the database in Unix). But I agree there's a difference between packaging together and built together. The AS/400 is worth it, IBM needs to sell robust simplicity, and the service to back it up, with the healthy margins they've always earned, and just knock it into their heads that: 1) the AS/400 isn't some SAN server that their marketing team cluelessly thinks it is, 2) a "batch" AS/400 running their dream product, Websphere, isn't going anywhere, and 3) they have a customer base that runs green screens and will continue to run green screens. Do they want to keep those customers or not? RalphComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Maybe this is where our iSeries Nation status comes into play. If enough of us lobbied IBM's about it's confusing product structure and built penalties, I wonder if they would listen? I am still upset over the fact that IBM is developing a tool (webfacing) and making it use the interactive feature."Frank Whittemore" <Frank_Whittemore@forums.midrangecomputing.com> wrote in message news:1efe031d.1@WebX.WawyahGHajS..."I think I know what you are talking about." ---------------------------------------------- You did and thanks for your reply. Brian Singleton refers to the "green-screen tax" in the July 2001 issue of Midrange Computing magazine in his "From The Editor" column titled "Is WebSphere Inevitable?". He refers to it as "another prod toward WebSphere". I'm currently in no hurry to switch to WebSphere, but I was wondering what, if anything, my RPG oriented shop should be doing now to avoid any future tax. Maybe we should all sign a petition asking IBM for a reduction in the tax rate. After all, the Federal Government is doing it. "Buy Used!!!" - Hmmm - I will keep that in mind. What are some of the rest of you doing to dodge this tax? I, for one, don't like the idea of being a volunteer tax payer and do support ideas such as "The Boston Tea Party".Comment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
An option is to use my techniques, Frank. I'm at the point now where I can automatically convert an RPG program so that it will use a browser in a way very similar to a 5250 display (ugly green fixed-format fonts and all). This way, all the programs run in batch. You have to have WebSphere (I'm looking at a Tomcat version as well), but there's absolutely no Java programming required. By the end of the quarter, I hope to have a version that doesn't even require any HTML knowledge. As it is, the HTML knowledge is minimal. If you're looking for support, I'm also partnering with another company. This option is for people who have no particular desire to become Java or Websphere experts. Feel free to contact me at joepluta@plutabrothers.com. Thanks! http://www.plutabrothers.comComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
"I'm currently in no hurry to switch to WebSphere, but I was wondering what, if anything, my RPG oriented shop should be doing now to avoid any future tax." If I understand it correctly, the "Interactive" CPU feature is required for green screen applications, not necessarily any particular code or language. In regards to custom development, it seems to me that the best bet continues to be developing modular applications, seperating front-end from back-end. Use batch processing, data queues, stored procedures, or any other backend integration technique, and formulate a plan to migrate your DDS-based interfaces elsewhere. Of course, lots depends on your budget, levels of customization, and your particular goals, etc...Comment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
Go to www.linomalogic.com and check out the ENVOY product. It moves your Interactive programs to batch and changes the green screen to web based products. Eliminates the interactive programming. They will do a demo if you are interested. HTH Bill BarnesComment
-
"Green-screen tax" - How to avoid it?
It's interesting, and frustrating when the name of something is at the tip of your tongue, and you can't remember what it is. There has been a myriad of articles recently on a product which circumvents CFINTxx. You'll have to do a bit of searching, but the product is available. DaveComment
Comment