Does Anybody Still Use CL?

[ACT]

" CL is a job control language used to set up jobs with object allocations and overrides and handle job failure and messaging." All of the above is handled by the ORACLE tools. I know this is very foreign to you, but it's one of the AUTOMATIC/MAGIC benefits of using Oracle.

[R.Daugherty]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

It's DB2/400 that doesn't need DBA's, not Oracle. That's part of what makes using Oracle so expensive, and why it hasn't replaced OS/400 and its integrated database to run their business. All of the above are handled automatically by DB2/400 and OS/400, it's occasional advanced handling where CL is used. rd

[David Abramowitz]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

To further enhance Ralph's comments. For the past several years Oracle sales and maintenance contracts are the stuff nightmares are made of.

[*]DB2 is included with OS/400, and is an integral part of it.[*]Oracle is a separate product from all of the OSs that use it. Any Oracle tool is also separate and apart from the OS.[*]CL is included with OS/400 and is an integral part of it.[*]Any languages including SQL that are included with Oracle are not part of any OS that supports it.[*]There is no extra charge for DB2 on iSeries.[*]The full Oracle product is very expensive, and extra charges are charged for extra bits and pieces.[*]DB2 is accessible from all HLLs including CL.[*]Add-on products are available from other vendors at an extra charge.[/list]I know iSeries maintenance is not what is used to be, and you have to get through a gatekeeper or two, but be it as it may, according to Computerworld and other publications Oracle support is far more cumbersome for most customers. Dave

[john316]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

The only thing I don't like about F4 is the fact that it forces a static margin (and puts it all in CAPS -- which I totally abhore). If I already know the syntax of a command, I will type it in (mixed case) in indented form (along with using the new enhancements such as the new for-next loops, etc.) to give it more of a structured look. However, more times than not, I don't remember the syntax (old age, I guess), so I use F4 at first, followed by a spruce-up. I would not necessarily recommend that for everyone when time is of essence -- but I am a very speedy typist, so -- very little overhead for me. Regarding determination on whether to use CL or QCMDEXC in RPGLE, I simply try to think expediency.

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

Not only does F4 converts mixed cases to uppercase, it also realigns to get rid of indents (structured look in your words). That is a bigger eyesore for me as I have programmed in uppercase for first 25 years of my career, and tolerate a little uppercase in the limited CL programming that I do. Then again, I use CL only when I find that the alternate is to call an API with upteen number of parameters. Maybe RPG should come up with an F4 on calls to API

[MCWebsite.Staff]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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I find it difficult how you can NOT use CL. We are a small group of mainframe Cobol developers, and use CL quite extensively. If you have programs, you have to have CL to invoke/call it. We're building a new data center, and will be migrating to a state-of-the-art I5 OS. So for my group, any future enhancements to CL will well be worth it. - Jim P. AS/400 Application Development Team Lead

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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There are a lot of original programs written in CL that are simply not worth the effort to convert. They do what they do and they do it very well. With the enhancements in RPG it's getting much easier to do things like file overrides in RPG but I still go back to the CL when I need to for consistencies sake if nothing else. I definitely see the point about younger developers not knowing CL though. I'm the oldest developer in our group at 39 and I'm the only one here who can write a command and am usually consulted by everyone else when they have to create or modify a CL. Even if they are consulting me on it though, they are still using CL.

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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Not using CL implies more diligent error handling would need to be coded into the application. Now I'm not saying one should rely completely on CL programs for error handling. But some errors within RPGLE just can't be handled without canceling the program unless someone coded every line to have a error handler. Without a CL to fall back on, this may mean cancelling the job. Restarting a job may not be as practical as simply performing a retry on the call to the application.

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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I really hate it when the cake is on the dinner table and I am expected to eat tasteless steamed vegetable. I know veggies are healthier but you know, cake is tastier. I can indeed master the API calls and do away with using CL altogether, or somewhat. But ... with CL aroud, when will I find time to make the transition? How can a bear learn to hunt food if the picknickers constantly feed them leftovers?

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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Some things are just easier in CL (i.e. work management). There is online help via F1 rather than going to InfoCenter - although I know you love it . It's easy to test. It's easy to prompt via F4 (try prompting an API). Error handling is seamless. It's a good scripting/programming language. And here is the problem. It doesn't excel in either scripting or programming. We have a number of HLLs available to programmers on iSeries so I think CL shouldn't excel in programming. But scripting.... YES it should beat REXX, Perl, PHP or any other scripting language. Enhancements are long overdue.

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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I would say, I eat, sleep and breath CL for the last 15 years so frankly speaking to me, CL make its presence in OS400 very prominently. Almost all OS400 APIs has a CL wrapper for an OS CL commands. However, its enhancement is not complete yet. IBM need to come up more functionality in term of integration and portability to other programming languages. I'll wait for the day when CL will be a TRUE programming language (similar to RPGLE) so that I could update it in my CV.. I'm still looking for CL to be able to perform update, delete or write data record in files directly rather than just read only. Recent CL enhancements in V5R3 is a eye-opener to other non-CL developers. I hope this is just the begining and more to come in later release. CL is more than 20 years old but still running strong compare to PL/1, REXX in OS400.. Let see what IBM has to say about this..!

[David Abramowitz]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

** This thread discusses the article: Does Anybody Still Use CL? **
I first started working with CL on a (very underpowered) beta S/38 model 3 in 1979. Our group had been previously working on a S/34 which used interactive OCL. We learned CL diligently but initially had one problem. No one told us that you had to compile the CL. We spent some time examining the code and couldn't figure out what we had done wrong! Eventually we got it. Between CL and database functions we soon realized that the S/38 was really unrelated to the S/34 except by twinax cabling, and the 5250 protocol. For many years, CL provided functionality unmatched by anything else. Dave

[nandelin]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

** This thread discusses the article: Does Anybody Still Use CL? **
RPG is great for database programming, but when it comes to daily operations involving systems components or generating, compiling, packaging, and installing software, how could you live without CL? Shell Scripts? Ant? XML Configuration Files? Talk about going back to the dark ages! Nathan.

[Guest.Visitor]

Does Anybody Still Use CL?

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In response to "Do we still use CL"....Yes, most definately. I am in a COBOL shop and sometimes writing a short CL program to do a task is much easier. As for Updating and writing to files in CL programs we can do that to with the help of ASC's Sequel product(fantastic product). It allows us to do all of the SQL commands you would do in regular SQL and QM(ie. update, insert, delete, create query files). I mean this is really a great pair when used together, you can pass parameters to SEQUEL create your output in a number of different formats and then FTP, EMAIL all from within your CL program. I will be using CL as long as I am in an AS400 shop.