RPG improvements

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

Believe me, we'd all like to see a native GUI interface for RPG but don't hold your breath. You're waiting for a feature that may never ever exist. I'm suggesting you use what is available now. Time is money. You can hire any college kid with computer science degree to do the HTML/Servlet coding for you and you can redeploy your RPG programs as centralized business logic "widgets". The iSeries can be the web server, that's built-in, so is Java -- just install it. Why is HTML/Java only practical for inquiry screens? Haven't you ever used a "shopping cart" on the internet? Those HTML screens use a subfile, allow you enter enter billing and shipping information and so forth. There are actually packages out there that will convert all of your source code in a weekend. You also webface your green screens as a stop gap measure. Please don't anyone take my comments as imflammatory. I'm just saying that you need to look at the reality of the situation and waiting for IBM to change the 5250 datastream is not reality. That's built into the workstation controllers and if IBM changes it, they break a lot of hardware/software. Chris

[David Abramowitz]

RPG improvements

In many shops it is not practical to rewrite everything in HTML,. or to hire or change the programming staff. That's just as much of a reality as IBM not changing the controller. I'm not asking for IBM to change the controller, I'd just like to take advantage of the features that are already there. Workstation APIs can access these "hidden" features. All I'm saying is that the features should not be hidden. For several years now, I've been saying that there ought to be an easier way to accomplish CGI programming. SYSIN and SYSOUT could be defined as files, and keywords could drive special processing. Sending streams of HTML, DHTML, XHTML code etc. to the screen could be handled in an easier fashion. The ability to display DB2/UDB/400 data directly should be made a priority. If you can translate the 5250 data stream to HTML using a screen scraper, why can't there be an "SDA for HTML"? Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

In many shops it is not practical to rewrite everything in HTML It wouldn't be practical to modify all green screens to use a native 24 bit color either, for example. You just modify what you need to. or to hire or change the programming staff. Then perhaps, send the staff you have to training or buy them the books. I used to work at a place that demanded you spend 1 hour every day playing with new toys. I loved it. Workstation APIs can access these "hidden" features. I'm not familiar with these hidden features. Can you give me web link so I can read about them? Sounds interesting. For several years now, I've been saying that there ought to be an easier way to accomplish CGI programming. SYSIN and SYSOUT could be defined as files, and keywords could drive special processing. Sending streams of HTML, DHTML, XHTML code etc. to the screen could be handled in an easier fashion. That's cool, I could go for that, although CGI uses more resources than Java servlets. With CGI, if you have 1000 users connected to your iSeries through the internet, that's 1000 distinct jobs. Servlets use threads which are more resource friendly. Chris

[David Abramowitz]

RPG improvements

Chris Ringer wrote: Then perhaps, send the staff you have to training or buy them the books. I used to work at a place that demanded you spend 1 hour every day playing with new toys. I loved it. I have not had a client with a training budget in well over ten years. All books, classes, conventions, etc. are out of my own pocket. Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

why can't there be an "SDA for HTML"? Exactly. Instead of Workstation files, why don't they create a "New" device for the "F" spec? Scot

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

Gosh, I certainly don't know. Please ask "them" and let us know their response. Maybe they will say to use Webfacing or CGIDEV2, which is basically your RPG writing to an HTML file. Isn't that what you are asking for? Maybe a new F-spec isn't needed after all. Chris

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

Well, HTML already exists and it's relatively easy to learn. To make a specialized version just for those who don't want to learn HTML would be overkill. For those who don't want to get into the lower level of coding required for CGI connections to HTML then there are tons of tools available. Personally I prefer WebSmart, but many others exist. IBM's way will always direct you to WebSphere so if you must stick to the IBM name then you're in for a much longer learning curve. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Scot Loucks" wrote in message news:6aec9022.19@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > why can't there be an "SDA for HTML"? > > Exactly. > > Instead of Workstation files, why don't they create a "New" device for the "F" spec? > > Scot

[David Abramowitz]

RPG improvements

This is not about making a specialized version of HTML. There are already several products, including some shareware and freeware programs that allow you to "paint" a web site. This is not too dissimilar to SDA. What I am suggesting is a manner to bring the process closer to the existing programming process, while at the same time upgrade the programming process to bring it closer to the internet transaction. This is not new. For many years functions formerly handled by APIs have become an integral part of native programming languages. This would be just another evolutionary (not revolutionary) step. BTW I have contacted IBM about improvements of this nature. IMO Toronto labs might do it if there were a groundswell of demand. In fact most of the recent improvements to RPG have originated from user requests, and focus groups. Dave

[buck.calabro@commsoft.net]

RPG improvements

> What I am suggesting is a manner to bring the > process closer to the existing programming process, > while at the same time upgrade the programming > process to bring it closer to the internet transaction. From a technical perspective, I think it would be difficult to make a stateful RPG program interact well with the stateless HTTP protocol. It isn't as simple as switching out 5250 for HTML, since 5250 is designed for synchronous dumb terminals and HTML is designed for asynchronous browsers. However, anyone who feels they have a genuine business need for HTML/HTTP within RPG (say as a new file type) or perhaps the ability to natively read/write Excel files, or any of a hundred ideas can submit a Design Change Request (DCR) to IBM and ask that they consider it. The DCR is one official way to get that done. Find a copy of the DCR in the Midrange FAQ at http://faq.midrange.com/data/cache/189.html Good luck! --buck

[dacust]

RPG improvements

My two cents worth. I've always thought the 400 should stick to what it does best. Database. The PC is great for presentation and graphics. It seems to me that it's a waste to burn all that horsepower just crunching graphics when a $300 PC can do it better. So, client server? We use NT servers to grab the data from the 400s and then present web pages. Some systems are written in VB using ODBC. The 400 just gets the updates back. Don't get me wrong, the majority of what we do is old green screen, but I'd rather move towards getting the interactive stuff off the 400 instead of trying to reinvent the wheel on the 400. Just a thought. I'm not millitant about it.....

[K.Forsythe]

RPG improvements

Ultimately IBM's decisions are driven by what helps sell the box. Will an "enhanced" 5250 data stream sell iSeries? No way. If your management already loves this box (as it should), IBM doesn't need to improve the 5250 data stream to keep you as a customer. If your management is looking for something "new" Java, ODBC, Web Facing, etc.. already provide that. If your shop is biased towards Windows/unix/linux platforms, there is no way an "enhanced" 5250 interface will get them excited. 5250 is fine for maintaining legacy applications and will be used for years to come. If you want to step up to something a bit more exciting and do some GUI, there are lots of options. Visual RPG, VB & OLEDB, CGI, Java, Web Facing etc... Stick with your 5250 skills and watch your market place dwindle as more and more development goes GUI, or get off the bench and learn some new skills. Packages have to go GUI to be marketable, which means programmers have to go GUI to be employable, which means that IBM has to go GUI to stay in business. The GUI tools are already there - use them. My two cents

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

kforsythe said: "Ultimately IBM's decisions are driven by what helps sell the box." I've been in the IBM midrange market for almost thirty years now and take exception with that conclusion. The midrange within IBM has had tremendous forces placed upon it not to upstage the other divisions. They have been throttled many times over the years and kept the midrange in check. Had IBM not done this then, clearly, the midrange hardware market might have been the dominant force over the last 25 years. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[Guest.Visitor]

RPG improvements

David said: "What I am suggesting is a manner to bring the process closer to the existing programming process," To whom are you referring when you say "existing programming process."? I don't want, and have never wanted, to make web programming look, act or feel like RPG. RPG, IMO, is the Ford Pinto of programming languages. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[David Abramowitz]

RPG improvements

Chuck Ackerman asked: To whom are you referring when you say "existing programming process."? I wasn't referring to a "whom" at all, I was referring to a "what". Dave

[J.Wells]

RPG improvements

Hmmm. Pintos were the ones that blew up when rear ended......I don't think that fits RPG at all. I suggest using the "Model T". I was certainly not around to experience the Model T first hand, but I believe they were very robust vehicles. I have read that they were dependable, would run on just about anything (e.g. even kerosene), could take a lot of abuse, and their power could be used for more than just going from point "a" to point "b" (e.g. you could remove the rear wheels and power your farm equipment). Just my 2¢. Joe