US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

Have a nice trip but...don't hurry back.

[J.Wells]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

"I did clean out all my old postings a couple of months ago. Happy?" Indifferent. "it is really fun to get Joe Pluta worked up" That is what I figured. "What about you?" Solve problems everyday. Quite content (and quite secure) with RPG. Thanks for asking.

[M.Savino]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

cdr5000 wrote: "I have left the AS/400 world dut to its lack of interest in me and its insistence to become extinct. After 15 years of my participation, it decided to die out. " Don't be so easy on yourself.... There's a slight chance that it's Not All Your Fault. The relationship between your participation in the AS400 World and it's Extinction may in fact be coincidental. Unless of coarse, it makes a Big Come Back now that your gone. Mike

[R.Daugherty]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

Kim wrote: Unusually honest feedback I don't hesitate to believe they were "really good people" but do you in all honesty feel the employeer gave you "unusually honest feedback" because "I was too experienced and they thought I would be bored"? Or, would it be possible the you are 52 years of age and their reasoning to you coverered their behinds? You were more than willing to spend three hours interviewing for the job which should have indicated to them you were a serious candidate (even though you were too experienced for the job), readily accept a salary below average (even though you were too experienced for the job), willing to relocate on your own dime(even though you were too experienced for the job) and on and on and on.... I'm 51 and could be in the same situation as you are should I lose my job. It is a shame but it's reality. Best of luck Ralph. I hope you find a company that will appreciate your dedication to the field. Thanks, Kim. So do I. That's what I meant by unusually honest. Most hiring managers wouldn't have acknowledged the reasons behind choosing a younger, less experienced person than myself. Saying that I would probably be bored is a back handed compliment, but it does acknowledge the reasoning behind their choice when they didn't have to give one at all. It was verbal to the recruiter who passed it on to me. In a way in that they do need to give feedback to the recruiter to continue working with them on future candidates, maybe it was not that unusual when a recruiter is involved. It did get back to me though. Thanks for the encouraging post, Kim. I appreciate it. Ralph

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

I don't hesitate to believe they were "really good people" but do you in all honesty feel the employeer gave you "unusually honest feedback" because "I was too experienced and they thought I would be bored"? Or, would it be possible the you are 52 years of age and their reasoning to you coverered their behinds? You were more than willing to spend three hours interviewing for the job which should have indicated to them you were a serious candidate (even though you were too experienced for the job), readily accept a salary below average (even though you were too experienced for the job), willing to relocate on your own dime(even though you were too experienced for the job) and on and on and on.... I'm 51 and could be in the same situation as you are should I lose my job. It is a shame but it's reality. Best of luck Ralph. I hope you find a company that will appreciate your dedication to the field.

[J.Wells]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

"I have left the AS/400 world dut to its lack of interest in me and its insistence to become extinct." Simple question - Why do you bother reading,visiting, and participating in this fora?

[J.Pluta]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

CDR, I can't tell how much of this ins tongue-in-cheek, but on the off chance that you actually mean waht you say in this post, I think I had better respond. You have a spreadsheet, not an application. You have no design, no analysis, no QA. You have no help desk, no bug reporting, no fix tracking. You have no business rules, no features list, no proposed enhancements. You have no interfaces, no security, no isolation of data, no auditing. You have no requirements review, no strategic planning for new technologies, no integration of heterogenous user interfaces. You have a spreadsheet. If all the programming you've ever done in your life can be matched by a spreadsheet, then you've really never done programming that would even equate to a junior programmer in an ERP shop. It's ironic that you are there to do cost analysis, and yet you clearly don't understand that the primary cost of software is not the hardware and the programs. It's in MTBF, support staff, bug fixes, time to market, auditing and all the other things that make an IT department something more than, well... a spreadsheet. And my mom likes Quickbooks, too. Joe

[R.Daugherty]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

I haven't seen a person "simply programming" in quite awhile. The expensive consulting companies were notarious for bringing in armies of green beans and giving them specs to code to, and the results were horrendous. Except for junior level programmers, most programmers participate in the overall business solution at the large corporations I've worked for, and more assuredly so at small to medium size businesses. rd

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

Yes, programming jobs are being lost to offshoring, foreign workers, etc for US programmer and there exist problems with the Visa system as some visa workers actually are not ALL that talented, but... For someone in the technology field to believe that he/she will thrive will just programming skills, they are living in an unrealistic world. Much has been written that those employees that go beyond simply a programmer, more into project management, project analyst and design, will be grow more valuable to companies and cannot be so easily replaced. Technology is a service field, but each of us to stay in the field has to have more service skills than simply programming. Thank you - Lee.

[R.Daugherty]

US Programmers Plight Psychically Linked to Amphibians

Thanks for the link, Bob. I finally got my first interview a year after being laid off, and that in another city. I interviewed for three hours and was told two weeks later through the recruiter that I was too experienced and they thought I would be bored. Instead, they hired someone younger and less experienced. My salary request had been set by the recruiter based on what the employer said they were paying for the position, a shade below average. That would have allowed me to continue my career and make a living programming and was fine with me. I don't blame the employer. They were good people and that was unusually honest feedback. At 52 I have less years left than a younger person, and we AS/400 programmers are all Sr. Programmer Analysts after four years or so. The successful candidate was probably local although relocation costs weren't included or an issue, and local ties are hard to overcome as evidenced by the many locals only stipulation in ads. I can still write my own personal software to be able to to continue creating as a programmer. I'll do something else that pays a much reduced rent instead of a mortgage, I have no idea what, but I'm undoubtedly becoming one of the statistics in this article. It is only a matter of increasingly lessening time before we are no longer able to pay other people to do our work anyway, which is as it should be. When we are no longer able to, it won't be pretty but we'll all have honest work again. Maybe even some programming. rd

[David Abramowitz]

This was stated a long time ago, but with a wider scenario of cause and effect: http://www.mcpressonline.com/mc?1@17...ae.1@.6ae61001 I think to say that the total cause of programmer disappearance is the H1B visa program is over-simplification. Stating that the result will be extinction is alarmist. As a young(er) independent, I viewed the market as an open book. I could go anywhere, and do anything. Today as an old(er) independent, I view myself as a niche commodity, filling only certain gaps at certain times. The market has indeed been dramatically reduced, but the American programmer is no more extinct than the coal miner or steel worker. Still there, just not as visible. Dave