Is It Time for Free-Format?

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

I hear you Hans. The scools are production thousands of times more C - Java programmers than they produce RPG programmers, maybe even more. I myself program in C but not on AS/400. The obvious reason is the awkward I/O handling of C and most of the stuff on As/400 is I/O. RPG is a number crunching machine that people use for Business Intelligence, not graphic processing. So I dont think green screen is a the major problem of AS/400. Green Screen can be covered by .net front end if webfacing is not good enough. The real problem for an AS/400 shop is transition to any other language or platform. I work in a Fortune 500 company which is partly owned by a software company. That software company has been lobbying hard for the past decade to convert the AS/400 based billing system to their Oracle based system but the board of director's majority always veto the proposal due to the heavy cost. As a result, much of the development is still on the AS/400 based system. To expect the company to hire C/400 programmers and develop new codes in C is far fetched. It is easier to hire RPG programmers who will clone the existing RPG programs and produce quick results. What I can do, and I really do, is to convince the shop to write the code in the C like /free language. I can also convince them to rewrite over-patched legacy code to /free with a click of mouse and fix the areas that keeps breaking every now and then.

[H.Boldt]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

Hassan wrote: "... the awkward I/O handling of C ..." I don't mean to nitpick, but if you're using SQL for I/O, C is really not much different than RPG. Just code "exec sql ...;", just like in RPG (V5R4). I agree with you - there's no sense in rewriting all your RPG apps in C. My point is that today many RPG programmers are simply writing C programs, but doing so using RPG syntax. Those who call for a totally free-form RPG could have their desires satisfied simply by using the CRTCMOD command, instead of CRTRPGMOD. Just offering up some food for thought. Cheers! Hans

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

No wonder the planet is warming up. There's nowt new under the sun, Tom Daly illustrates the power of Report Program Generator as a language. What other language will let your create a real working report in 5 lines of code (or did it used to be 7 ) and the phrase "Add 1 Result" is as unambiguous as "Eval Result=Result+1" and takes less typing. The Real discussion about code syntax should be revolving around how maintainable the result is, and both formats allow undecipherable code to be produced. some may say that free form is more likely to suffer, some may come across awful columnar format code and decide the same. Either way, we should focus our efforts and training on best practice for quality and maintainability. Good, or bad, programming remains the same whatever language or syntax a good, or bad, programmer uses. Looking at colleagues around me, and reading these annals, it seems that most folk just can't be bothered to explore the functionality and features they have. I'm amazed at how much people don't bother to learn, and how much curiosity is missing. Those of us who do - well, lets just use the new tools we have to their best and appropriate advantage, and improve our own jobs and value in the job market. And in the sad but true department, it remains the truth, and will do so, that character based input, with fingers always on the home keys, is faster and less error prone than a windows environment, especially if drop downs and mouse clicks are used with very, very few exceptions. But again, no one takes time or trouble to evaluate and tune character screens, whereas there has been focus on making GUIs workable. Probably we need another generation of PC based operating system, and definitely another generation of programming education before we get the computing we deserve. Meanwhile, lets just get on with coding as straightforwardly as possible. Richard Wilson

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

You know I never mind your "nitpicking", it always adds to my knowledge even after 27 years in this profession. Yes I am very tempted to write in C/400. The only problem is that many shops do not have native SQL and prefer third party software like ASC's SEQUEL. That rules out embedded SQL in C. However my present shop has native SQL and once I convince them for /free, my next move would be to try C with embedded SQL. My 400 colleagues who hate /free would surely hate C/400 even more. All non-400 guys in my team know both SQL and C. They would love to take over and fire me Just kidding, I am already involved heavily in Oracle and Sequel Server with .net

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

Hello Joe, nice to see you take time off websphere and go back to the old fart known as RPG. I have loaned your step by step books to friends of mine. They tried it and it took the "Fear" out of "Web's Fear". Now they have ordered or are ordering their own copies. I always tell new immigrants, especially coming from India, that English is not just what you learned in your schools in India. You need to watch movies, TV, football (American Football), basketball, baseball, listen to different genres of music etc before you understand when an American speaks. Furthermore, an American would speak with his choice of clothes, jewelleries, perfumes, the choice of body, head, and hand movement etc. There is a long list for the clueless immigrants. Once a manager Every new programmer in a legacy shop is like an immigrant. He has to go through shop standards to understand what is going on real quick. Then he has to develop by shop standards. These standards have nothing to do with efficient development per se. It is more a mean of communication in my experience. It has a lot to do with the obstination of the top I.T. guy, I must admit. Think about it, your example of "all SQL, no native I/O" example. This shops top guy may be a nut, but can also be a visionary. See Hans Boldt's suggestion to me. Maybe this nut/visionary is keeping a provision for the application to be portable? Who knows?

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

the phrase "Add 1 Result" is as unambiguous as "Eval Result=Result+1" and takes less typing. That is what I have been saying. Stick to classic RPG and say "Add 1 Result" or use /free and say "Result += 1;" ;-)

[MCWebsite.Staff]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
** This thread discusses the Content article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
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[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
I was a die hard fan of yours and since I was involved in training all my life, got hundreds of your books sold. I also recommended your article on MC press and your RPGIV egroup. My postings on iSeries Network speak of my image of you. That was past! Now I dont read your articles or recommend your books. This article was forwarded to me by my friend as an argument for not going forward. The reasons should be very obvious. I jumped on the "bandwaggon" five years ago and never looked back. I have been an evangelist of /free since then. While I am lobbying for the freedom of D specs for a totally free format RPG subset, it sucks to see the great Cozzi preaching conservatism (and I thought you were a Democrat) p.s. no insult intended. I still respect you for what you have done and what you are doing on RPGIV forum.

[Guest.Visitor]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
I've been using free format RPG for several years and I greatly prefer it to the fixed format. The structure is much easier to follow with the indentations and repetitions reduction, and there are less keystrokes required which means the code can be produced faster. When you are used to reading error codes with free format you come to recognize them. (I don't think I have ever written a program without leaving out at least one semicolon.) Come on, Bob, even you can't know everything the first time you try something new. Incidentally, I hope Bob understands how the accumulator works that he has put into an example. This looks like a nice example of a gotcha: If X = 15, X += X + 1 produces 31. Most of us use the accumulator to avoid repeating the name of the field holding the accumulation. Faster, clearer, more straightforward -- what more could you want from a new version of RPG. I happened to show one of my programs to a COBOL programmer who said with amazement, "I can read that -- is it really RPG?"

[aglauser]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
I'm a bit confused by the following:

V5R1:

count = count + 1 bytes = bytes * %size(custname) + 1; V5R2:

count += count + 1 bytes *= %size(custname) + 1; V5R3:

count += count + 1 bytes *= (%size(custname) + 1);

The addition example given for V5R1 does not produce the same result as in V5R2 and V5R3. In V5R2, count += count + 1; is the same as count = count + count + 1; which is obviously a different result than what you have for V5R1. I think this should be: V5R1: count = count + 1 bytes = bytes * %size(custname) + 1; V5R2: count += 1 bytes *= %size(custname) + 1; V5R3: count += 1 bytes *= (%size(custname) + 1); On another note, I must agree that the /free,/end-free compiler directives seem a bit redundant to me too. It would be less onerous if F,D and P specs were also freed ... then for most (new) programs we could just drop a /free at the top, a /end-free at the bottom and we'd be set!

[R.Cozzi]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
Yep, we're going to fix it in the article... just one of those typos due to cut/pasting code. Sorry. Here's what it will be:

 V5R2: count += 1; bytes *= %size(custname) + 1; V5R3: count += 1; bytes *= (%size(custname) + 1); 

[R.Cozzi]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
Thanks for selling my books. My daughters all appreciate it as a send the last one off to college at the end of summer. One of my problems is that I do usually see the entire picture instead of just those things that I like or dislike. Then I make a decision. As I said in my article, most people were not on V5R1 yet and therefore there was no point alienating them to satisfy the few. Certainly the day for bleading-edge RPG was back in the late 1980s and early to mid 1990s, but today application lifecycles are too short to care about if you've used fixed or free format RPGIV. This is the reason I've decided to start using it--cause unlike code I've written in the 1980s, this code probably won't be in service in 20 years.

[David Abramowitz]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
I completely agree with the mallard syllogism example. The facts are that most midrange shops never send anyone to a conference, or have people that participate in local user groups, or ever come in contact with any of the fine webzines devoted to midrange practices. This brings me to an objection concerning the use of free form. The conversion from RPG III to RPG IV is accomplished by a single command. It is quick, easy, almost 100% complete, and painless. There really is no excuse not to convert. Such a conversion is neither time consuming, nor problematic. Moving to /free on the other hand is time consuming, and for the most part unnecessary. In other words what benefit would be obtained by starting a conversion project of this nature? It would be possible to mandate new programming in /free, but that would leave one foot in and one foot out. It would also be possible to maintain existing programming using /free, but that too would leave a hodgepodge of code. Certainly there are advantages. There are things that may be accomplished in /free (Updating a single field within a record comes to mind), and there are shops that can afford the budget for such a project. None of these shops are clients of mine, so I will just use /free where I can, and where appropriate. Dave

[mscottx]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
It is absolutely ridiculous to continue to code in columnar. Nothing irritates me more than respectable programmers who are experts in their fields that refuse to advance. This is the IT business people. Ever changing and evolving. Move up and beyond or decay. Next, you'll say using callback functions is too complicated.

[brianmay]

Is It Time for Free-Format?

** This thread discusses the article: Is It Time for Free-Format? **
If you are using WDSc, there is an option in there to convert to free form. It works reasonably well. The main issues you will run into will be MOVE statements, as they are not supported in /free, and program calls, since they would need to be prototyped. All in all I have been happy with the move to /free. Our company did not go for a full scale conversion process. Our approach was to convert code as it needed maintenance.