It's not about competition, folks...

[dacust]

It's not about competition, folks...

Chuck, The last time I read anything on this, the actual profit to a foreign company producing a car here in the US is only hundreds, not thousands. With the large portion of the taxes, labor, staying here in the US. However, this doesn't take into account where the individual parts are made. The foreign designed cars usually have a few more foreign made parts, but not a huge amount. If you are saying we should maximize the money we keep in the US by buying US made, AND US owned, then I see your point. But if you are thinking that buying a US made foreign car is as bad as buying a US car made in another country, please note that economists have long said that buying made in US is many times more important than buying owned in US. Just wanting to make sure I understand what you are saying............ -dan

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris said: "The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values." Then said: "If you want to "bash" me for expressing MY opinions and values....go right ahead." Sorry if I misunderstood, but if you reread the first quote I think you'll agree that it was not presented as an opinion but as a fact. If it was an opinion then I think I'll have to politely disagree. Why? I don't have any inkling as to what the values of a company is. And, I certainly can't surmise it from the outside by listening to sound bites on the TV or on slanted articles on "news" websites. Chris also said: "But consider for a minute, if you had a choice to buy a product made in America (from american parts put together in the USA) and a product that had nothing made or built in the USA and they were the same price and quality.....which product would you buy?" You pose a potentially tricky question... I DO make my vote with my dollars. I specifically have chosen never to purchase an automobile where the profits are not kept in America. This isn't something that I suddenly chose because of the current world affairs. I made this conscious decision over 30 years ago. And, I don't buy a foreign car and compromize my beliefs by sheepishly saying that, "well, er, um, gee it was assembled in America. That's good enough for me!" I look where the profits and taxes on those profits go. Consider this. Purchase a Mercedes (or Chrysler or Lexis or Porsche or Nissan) for big bucks and you are handing over thousands of dollars in the form of taxes to a foreign government who pretends to be our ally and then uses this money to undercut us at their whim. (Again, I agree with you that nothing is 100% U.S. made, but where the corporation's headquarters is located IS important from a tax standpoint.) I have no idea if GM or Ford share my "values" and it's simply not important to me. I only know that when I buy a GM or Ford car the taxes on those profits stay in America. I give too many of my dollars to the American government already, I don't want to pay taxes to Germany or Japan also. IMO, the American Way should be to keep as much of my disposable income out of the hands of foreign governments as possible. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[cwscholbe@dstsystems.com]

It's not about competition, folks...

Chuck, I am more than a little surprised at your response. Of course these are MY opinions, as are the comments you express here. Who is "the keeper of the values"? I am...You are...each and everyone of us. I could care less who you spend your money with...that is your decision. The point of MY post was not in relation to outsourcing IT. It was to express MY opinion that when I make a purchase I consider more than just the price. Things like quality, and yes...is this the kind of company that I want to support with my dollars, and even if it comes down to a choice between a product made here and made "elsewhere" (all other things being equal) I would probably pay a little more to buy a product made in America. (please hold your comments that some of the parts may be made outside the US). I understand the global economy. But consider for a minute, if you had a choice to buy a product made in America (from american parts put together in the USA) and a product that had nothing made or built in the USA and they were the same price and quality.....which product would you buy? MY personal choice is to buy American products when I can. If you want to "bash" me for expressing MY opinions and values....go right ahead. I couldn't stop you anyway....nor should I try....the 1st amendment you know.

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris said: "The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values." In your opinion, of course. Chris said: "It is incumbant on us to support the companies that share our values." So, who is "the keeper of the values?" If I don't agree with your version of the "American Way" does that make me a bad guy or simply un-American? Chris also said: "Instead of suggesting that we are penalizing a company by not buying from them...look at it this way...we reward another company when we purchase the product from them. It's called competition." I agree. But Best Buy will still get my dollars. We can find fault with any company if we look hard enough. Do you shop at Ikea? All of their I.T. is overseas. Do you boycott Allied Van Lines? They are owned by a British company. Do you eat at Burger King? Another British company. Do you buy a GM car? Their entire I.T. is outsourced. I can remember when I was a child and lots of cheap products started showing up from Japan. My dad wouldn't buy anything made in Japan because of Pearl Harbor and WWII. Yet, today, things made in Japan, such as a Lexis or a Sony camcorder are considered high end products and we proudly use such products. Look at it this way. ALL of the Lexis and Sony IT departments are overseas! Consequently, if you want to not purchase anything from any company that has their I.T. outside the U.S. you'll be living in an empty house. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

Nicely said, Chris. Joe

[cwscholbe@dstsystems.com]

It's not about competition, folks...

To kumargovindas: The American Way is to shop not only for value for our dollar but to support those companies who share our values. An extreme example would be if a XXX Video store offered cheap VCR players (at lower cost than my local video store). I would still NOT buy from them based on price alone. It is incumbant on us to support the companies that share our values. Instead of suggesting that we are penalizing a company by not buying from them...look at it this way...we reward another company when we purchase the product from them. It's called competition. THIS is the American Way. If they want my dollars, they must compete for it. And competition is not based on price alone.

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris said: "One thing is for sure. Any politician running for office this year that doesn't support keeping jobs in the USA will be unemployed." I think the gay marriage issue will have a much bigger impact on the election. Most see the outsourcing of I.T. personnel as retribution for the havoc that the I.T. industry caused in the late 90s. "They got what they deserved." chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

It's not about competition, folks...

Joe said: "In any event, if you're not willing to try, then don't bother complaining." On this we agree! chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

It's not about competition, folks...

Joe said: "But if we don't, if we listen to the outsourcing apologists like those who inhabit this forum" I like the innuendo. I'll take the bite. It also appears that you simply just don't get my drift. I'm not for or against outsourcing. I'll be blunt. What I'm against is those who have ignored outsourcing for the last 50 years and then suddenly cry foul when it hits their profession. It's hypocritical and a case of someone saying their profession is more important than others. It's clear that people in other professions have adapted to being outsourced, why can't we adapt? Maybe we're just a bunch of old farts who can't stand change. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

It's not about competition, folks...

Joe, I spent over $300 at Best Buy on Sunday. I also vote with my dollars. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Joe Pluta" wrote in message news:6aea2e89.4@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > Hardly immoral. It is capitalism at its finest. Voting with the wallet, the American way. And I'm NOT looking to kill the company, simply making sure they stop outsourcing. As soon as they do, I will once again give them my business. > > By the way, I already have put this plan in motion. I wanted to buy a new game, which I would normally have bought from Best Buy. This purchase will not be made. That's fifty bucks they lost already. Typically a large part of my Christmas shopping is done there as well. Not this year. > > Joe

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

[laughing!] You're a funny, funny man. All of a sudden you're worried about American workers! Except you don't seem to give a damn about the nearly 1000 workers who will be put out on the street. The integrity of your position has now been clearly defined. Joe

[ACT]

It's not about competition, folks...

The American Way - buy a product based on the value of your $$$. People who do otherwise deserved to be in the iron curtain. No options, No Choice, No Freedom. Boycott is a counter-productive exercise and American consumers are wise buyers who will not take this route. What will happen then to the fine men and women manning the Best Buy stores day in and day out? You penalize them...RIGHT ? And these are the people who will be affected most if we behave like irresponsible ordinary JOEs.

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

"How dare you Joe." David, you're the last person who should complain about personal criticism in these forums. You're never one to shy away from expressing your opinion of others' actions, so don't get your back up when I express my opinion of yours. Sauce for the goose, and all that. I think your assessment that a boycott will increase sales is specious and is in fact dangerous. It provides an excuse to those who want the convenience of Best Buy, but still want to complain about the unfairness of it all. That way they can say they have been active while in fact not doing anything at all. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but I am saying that your position is unsupported and needlessly negative. If you don't want to boycott, fine, but don't slam those who find it appropriate with unsupported arguments about publicity and increased sales. And maybe even offer some alternative solution, eh? Anyway, no offense meant, and I hope you take it in the spirit given: trying to find active steps to take to combat this problem. Joe

[David Abramowitz]

It's not about competition, folks...

How dare you Joe. You, of all people should know that I have never sat idly by on important issues, and in terms of outsourcing, indeed, I have been active, and I think (and I hope) that you realize that. In terms of activity, I have assessed that a boycott may not be appropriate. Recriminations will not convince me otherwise. ad hominym. Dave

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

"IMO An ineffective campaign without enough people will actually boomerang by giving the target name recognition, and increased sales." IMO you're simply looking for excuses to not do anything. To me, it's better to try and fail than not to try at all. And of course, if everyone waits for someone else, nobody will do anything. In any event, if you're not willing to try, then don't bother complaining. Joe