It's not about competition, folks...

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

Thanks, Dave, for this update. If (and that's still a big "if") this is actually how the outsourcing works, then I'm willing to change my stance somewhat. I have two issues: 1. Best Buy lied about this from the get-go, so I have no reason to believe this is really what will happen. I'll be interested to see how many of these staffers actually receive "comparable offers", and what "comparable" means. Comparable is not "you get 60% of your orgiinal salary and have to work 50 billable hours a week with 50% travel". 2. 130 people is still 130 people. The company is growing and doing great things, and they're still putting 130 people on the street. That's a lot of people. The severance mitigates the issue somewhat, but it's still a lot of people without jobs thanks to Best Buy. I think my personal decision will rest upon whether or not those 650 people really get jobs, or whether they're just going to be offered gofer positions, or are temporary workers poised to be cut as soon as all this blows over. No matter what though, it's clear that companies are finally starting to realize that wholesale layoffs are no longer acceptable. Sears is looking to do the same thing, outsourcing a portion of its work, but with the understanding that most of the affected staff will be picked up by the outsourcer. It's clear to me the vocal anti-outsourcing community is having an effect - I don't think either Best Buy or Sears would have worried about their displaced workers a year ago. Joe

[J.Pluta]

It's not about competition, folks...

Best Buy announced a great quarter. They're leaps and bounds above last year, recording what they call a "banner year" with income rising 29%. This is thanks in no small part to the American consumer. The result? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...j_bbuyresults/ They plan to put nearly 1000 American IT workers out of work, in all likelihood shipping their jobs to India. As you can see, this is not about a corporation "struggling to survive" or anything like it. It is about greedy corporate owners squeezing every last penny of profit possible at the expense of American workers. I love Best Buy. I like just wandering through the aisles. But it looks like I may have to vote with my wallet and find another source for electronics and videos. How can I continue to support a company that lays off my coworkers for no reason other than greed? Joe P.S. I plan to write to Best Buy. I'm going to mention this in an upcoming MCMagOnline column as well. If you'd like to comment privately, feel free to drop me a line.

[dmjae2004@yahoo.com]

It's not about competition, folks...

They plan to put nearly 1000 American IT workers out of work, in all likelihood shipping their jobs to India. You and Dave400 don't address the fact that some 900 people in Minneapolis will be without a job It turns out there are 130 jobs lost as part of the outsourcing, and it was done with Accenture who are taking on the other 650 IT staff, leaving 40 people in Best Buy IT. Employees being terminated will be kept on the company's payroll through about mid-June, then receive severance packages. Best Buy IT Outsourced Does this outcome alter people's actions on how they will, or will not, shop at Best Buy ?

[dmjae2004@yahoo.com]

It's not about competition, folks...

The Best Buy case probably has nothing to do with saving costs but everything to do with politics. I suspect, like you, that Best Buy is outsourcing IT because it became a fiefdom that had way too much power and autonomy within the organization and this is the best way they could tame the beast. Chuck, What do you know about Best Buy IT that you are not telling us ? I have seen nothing in their previous presentations/articles/press releases that would support these allegations. Where as if you look at their financial performance better management of their costs has to be big concern. The resignation of their CIO is a telltale sign. Really ??? To me reading the CIO has been outsourcing IT services since 2000 suggests he is pro-outsourcing. You may also want to read this press release http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/we....RRDw_DSM.html when Best Buy announced their Global Sourcing Office in China (nothing to do with outsourcing, but shows the global thinking the CIO was applying across the business. We must remember that Best Buy's core business is retailing, not IT. Yes, and to most retailers IT is just an additional cost of doing business.

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris said: "Also Good Year Tires are listed on the Lou Dobbs Exporting USA Jobs" Good, I'm glad to see we've got a McCarthy-like blacklist going. ;-)

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris, I doubt this campaign will have a big impact. Most people don't like to support competitive slamming campaigns. And, it will certainly have no effect on those who buy foreign tires such as Michelin or Yokohama. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer. "Chris Ringer" wrote in message news:6aea2e89.95@WebX.WawyahGHajS... > I just heard an awesome commercial on the radio by Good Year tires. They explained how Bridgestone, their competition, is replacing American workers by outsourcing jobs overseas, and if you want to support America, buy Good Year. > > I wonder how the Bridgestone board will react? Bring jobs back to America? Or take their chances for a year and hope the earnings are not impacted? I'll definitely choose Good Year over Bridgestone now... > > Chris

It's not about competition, folks...

Joe said: "there was at least some incentive to be loyal to your community, because if you weren't, your customer base voted with their wallets...as well as continuing to build community goodwill." While I agree with your sentiments there really is no incentive to "do the right thing" for most companies. Often doing what's right for the community is totally opposite to doing what's right for the employees or the company. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

It's not about competition, folks...

Ralph said: "in my opinion outsourcing is primarily driven by deep dissatisfaction with IT...We have seen this outsourcing bringing it back inhouse dance for decades, either way the argument made to save costs. " From afar your assessment seems the most logical. The Best Buy case probably has nothing to do with saving costs but everything to do with politics. I suspect, like you, that Best Buy is outsourcing IT because it became a fiefdom that had way too much power and autonomy within the organization and this is the best way they could tame the beast. The resignation of their CIO is a telltale sign. We must remember that Best Buy's core business is retailing, not IT. chuck Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer.

It's not about competition, folks...

Hey Ralph, Got it. I hadn't read about retooling being used as an excuse, although I'm sure there are all kinds of things being used to dance around what is probably the real issue, which is money. Brian P.S. Welcome back, BTW. Glad to read from you again! ;-)

[R.Daugherty]

It's not about competition, folks...

Brian, you misunderstand my post, but there's a first for everything. I am saying I reject the incessant industry wisdom that many "procedural" programmers are unable to become "object oriented" or "event driven" programmers, used as an excuse to outsource IT shops overseas to people who were apparently never procedural programmers and so can grasp the intracacies of object oriented programming, if we are to believe this line of reasoning. Those sentiments are not expressed here, of course, but when I read that an IT staff is being eliminated because they can't retool, that is the excuse being made to send the jobs overseas for dirt cheap labor. As for not having to live in a cardboard box, what kind of housing were you envisioning for the hundreds of thousands, millions counting those who changed to something with a paycheck, of IT career people who haven't found a job in the last two years? Hopefully things are improving, but temp jobs don't buy much more than a cardboard box. The sentiment that the only thing standing between an unemployed programmer and another job in IT is retooling is belied by the across the board unemployment in all disciplines, unless something happened that you know of and you haven't told me yet. And in saying that, I want to add that that in no way endorses the concept that there ever was anything superior to Java over RPG for business programming. Quite the contrary. In my opinion, they will never get back to where we had it for business, and that is part of the current problem. All that was needed was a visual interface for the AS/400 and IBM would have had the superior business solution, but they became converts in selling Websphere running anywhere instead of the AS/400 being a uniquely superior solution, so here we are. I rejected it then and now. rd

It's not about competition, folks...

Chris Ringer wrote: > I just heard an awesome commercial on the radio by Good Year tires. > They explained how Bridgestone, their competition, is replacing > American workers by outsourcing jobs overseas, and if you want to > support America, buy Good Year. That's an interesting way of looking at things, seeing as how Bridgestone is a Japanese company. Bill

It's not about competition, folks...

Dave, You make a good point, Goodyear is listed as exporting American jobs at cnn.com. I emailed Goodyear investor relations asking for an explanation. If I get a response, I'll post it here. Since Goodyear and Bridgestone are both giants in the tire industry, I'd say safety and reliabilty are both high. Actually, I avoided buying Bridgestone/Firestone tires a few years ago when they had the problem with tires peeling off cars while in motion. I'll listen to the radio commerical more closely next time I hear it. Chris

It's not about competition, folks...

I contest the usual industry chatter about "procedural" programmers not being able to adapt to "event driven" programming as we saw in one quote in this thread or any of the terminology used to describe object oriented programming, but the point is moot when RPG and Cobol programming jobs are being shipped overseas. And they are.

The point isn't learning some new aspect of the same job, it's about retooling yourself to do something different, if necessary. It may or may not be necessary - that's up to the individual to decide, based on circumstances.

The only retooling going on is setting up to live in a cardboard box instead of a house.

If that's a person's choice, then so be it. But it doesn't have to be. Brian

[R.Daugherty]

It's not about competition, folks...

This quote raise many questions, David. It's difficult for me to envision computer programmers and network admins and project managers as sitting around waiting for retirement. The vision is more like a hamster on a wheel. I contest the usual industry chatter about "procedural" programmers not being able to adapt to "event driven" programming as we saw in one quote in this thread or any of the terminology used to describe object oriented programming, but the point is moot when RPG and Cobol programming jobs are being shipped overseas. And they are. Adapt or die, the free traders mantra goes. The only retooling going on is setting up to live in a cardboard box instead of a house. That is competitive to the third world. We should be so proud. rd

[dchristie]

It's not about competition, folks...

Here is a quote which I believe sums up the attitude of senior IT management towards staff. It's from a major North American company who is outsourcing: modified to protect company name ------------------------------- "We found that some people cannot retool, and they realize that. The challenge is that company-name is no longer a cradle to grave environment. Job security is no longer a guarantee. We see two different dichotomies. We are seeing people who are panicking and saying that this is not fair. Our Vice President used to say, company-name first, removed-text next and then contractors. That has now gone away. Some employees are embracing the changes and are happy to move out of, for example, the Assembler world and into something new. Others are scared to death because they know they cannot be retrained or they have been here for 20 years and done nothing but their current job. There will be casualties, no doubt. We have not seen it yet, but there will be some casualties as a result. There are anxieties, but it is pushing some to realize that they have to step up their performance and not sit around waiting for retirement." ------------------------------- I believe it's a good quote, maybe time for us to wake up and look for another direction in our career. I will not reveal the company name, our company is a member of this management group and emails are sent to me on a regular basis and are not meant to be public. The 'funny' thing about this email, was that it contained 3 case studies on companies doing outsource (all successes, one saved 10mil in 6 months) and the final topic was 'IT in a Recovering Economy - Meeting Summary'!!! Thanks Dave