Musicality in the Programming Field

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Is there any perceived correlation between visual arts and programming? If not, maybe there aren't many examples. Or ... I wonder what would happen if the idea became prevalent that there was a connection between say painting and programming; maybe people would start to find examples, and the idea would become common knowledge, the way the thing about musicians and mathematics/programming is common knowledge (or maybe folklore). I guess I'm suggesting that people only see what they're looking for, sort of like the mental hospital workers who notice more strange activity when there's a full moon or on Friday the 13th, when really all that's happening is that they're predisposed to "collect" strange activity at those times. Barbara

[GlenKerner]

Musicality in the Programming Field

My question from the other thread still remains: Since I'm a programmer does that mean I can play the violin?

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Only if you're multithreaded!

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Glen, I don't know if you can play the violin, but if you are interested, you might as well give it a try. If your music career doesn't take off, you might want to try singing rap music instead. By all means, don't let your musical talents go to waste.

[D.Handy]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Glen, "Since I'm a programmer does that mean I can play the violin?" Sure you can. But that doesn't mean anyone wants to hear you do it. Seriously, I do play violin and was first-chair concertmaster at my school, but I don't have (or make) the time to play much anymore which makes it somewhat discouraging when I do try to play -- it is a "use it or lose it" art skill. When I was a kid, I wanted to play violin in the worst way. And now I do!!! Doug

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

programming is sometimes approached artistically...I get the exact same bang from writing a program, when it's both elegant and it works.

I wonder how many people have that kind of experience with programming.  If you don't, then I doubt you'd keep at it.  If you approach it mechanically, the tedium will get to you.  I've drawn comparisons between programming and art in the past and had people respond  with something like "geeeze, you're turning my stomach".  But you find a lot of artists thinking outside the box.  Mastering the technique is not enough.  They're making refinements.  Moving beyond what they've done in the past.  I think we programmers might learn something from them.

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

From all of these responses, I still can not conclude that there is a positive correlation between musical ability and programming ability. What I can conclude is that there is a very positive correlation between musical ability, and participation in these fora! Hmmmmmmm. Maybe we've set foot on new scientific ground :-) Dave

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Yes...... How well you can play it is another matter :-) Dave

[J.Pluta]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I am going to have a very hard time expressing this, because it's a very "soft" feeling, but I'll try. I don't think that the relationship between musicality and programming is based on mathematics. Instead, it's based on an innate understanding of the relationships of the mathematics (without having to actually understand the underlying math). There's an early science fiction story which I cannot remember the name or author for the life of me, but it's one of the greats (I'm almost positive it's a Heinlein story, I think it's "Misfit"). The story is about a young space soldier who inherently understands mathematical relationships. It comes in handy on an asteroid, I believe, because he intuitively knows how far the horizon is based on the diameter of the asteroid (or something like that). I think this same intuitive sense of "things mathematic" are what makes both a musician and a programmer have that same sense of "elegance". The first time I played a minor 7th chord, I was in the same kind of rapture I got when I did my first ASCII-EBCDIC translation (it was in assembler, and used the ADC - add with carry - and you'd have to have done it to understand ). And the first time I went from a suspended 4th to the major chord - well that was the same sense of completion I got when I figured out how the 100.0001 multiply worked. The parallels are even stronger in object oriented programming, because you are constantly building on your earlier work. In OO, you know you are on the right track when enhancements actually start REMOVING lines of code rather than adding them. I understand mathematics very well. I stopped at diffy-q when I realized that the primary employment of math PhDs was as math teachers, but up until that point I loved it. And it wasn't the detail, it was the UNDERSTANDING. Math is so clean, and it makes other things so clean. For example, the first time I used a differential equation to determine that the volume of a sphere was indeed 4/3*pi*r-cubed, I was enthralled. And mathematics explains physics, which in turn explains inorganic chemistry, which in turn sheds a lot of light on organic chemistry, which in turn helps clarify some things in biology (note the decreasing amount of certainty as you go along that route). This movement to completion, this fundamental understanding, and this intuitive sense of relationship, these are the things that make musicality and programming similar, at least to me. Then again, I could be a complete and utter psycho...

smirk<

Joe

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Joe, I'll buy that. You expressed my own relationship with mathematics beautifully - exactly the same as yours except in the details. My favourite math prof at university was the same - I remember him introducing an equation for a hyperbola with awe in his voice, saying in his Turkish accent "This is the most beautiful equation - the most beautiful". There have been a few mathematical concepts that I've never quite grasped except for a sort of quick glimpse of something that lasted only for a brief moment. Those moments ... somehow better than actual permanent understanding. Very much like my musical experience, you're right. Thanks.

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

The more experienced members of the forum will know the tune "If you knew Suzie", the younger members may not. *************** If you loved programs, Like I love Programs, Oh, Oh, Oh what a life An art form complex, Especially when in hex, Oh, Oh, Oh my goodness, Now I'm in strife I was coding, Most of the night, Should've been at home, To play with the kids - be their fatherly light. If you loved programs, Like I love programs, Oh, Oh what a wife. *************** Who says we're married to the job? Russell

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Russ, You need to get out more often :-) Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

This has probably been the most interesting thread I've come across on this forum to date, greatly enjoyed it and I hope it continues for a while. I think there is a common thread underlying this whole conversation. I've never been able to pinpoint the exact relationship, but I think that it all is based on the underlying logical contructs of just about everything mentioned. Let me use myself as an example: I've been a musician all my life in one form or another and was a music major in college until I switched over to English (creative writing) and Philosophy(logical systems). I was not interested in/exposed to computers until my late 20's. Math was never a problem for me, I was even solicited by my University to be a Math Major, but it seemed to boring at the time (today I would jump on the opportunity!) Logic came naturally. It was a breeze to figure out even complex logic embedded in language. As a result, learning to program took about 2 weeks. Today, I think I could pick up just about any language in the same amount of time. Moving from RPGIII to ILE took 2 days. Finally, I also happen to love Woodworking. There is nothing like developing a plan in your head and seeing it come to life from raw materials. I'm not trying to "toot my own horn" (sorry, couldn't resist!), as I'm sure that most everyone on here has a similar story. I think what is common though between all of these is that there is some form of logic driving everyone of these factors: music, art, writing, and woodworking represent the logic of form while Math, logical analysis, programming, etc. represent the logic of function. These talents certainly express themselves in an infinite variety of ways. For instance, I happen to be the best "packer" I know...I can look at a pile of stuff and innately "see" how the shapes fit together best in a box, suitcase, hanging bag, whatever. On the other hand, I'm the worst "unpacker" I know...what comes out invariably ends up in a pile somewhere on whatever flat space is available! Joel

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I've always been into drums; I think it's helped my typing. ;-) -Chris

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

You may find this site interesting then.

  Music Sketcher is a vehicle for experimenting, generating ideas, and exploring the power of some new music technology being developed at the Computer Music Center at IBM Research. Music Sketcher focuses on three new technologies: Riffblocks - small blocks of musical content Modifiers - real-time transformation algorithms SmartHarmony - constrains pitches transformations within a chosen harmonic framework.