Musicality in the Programming Field

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I hate to be the voice of opposition here, but most of the musicians I know have all the programming capability of their musical instrument. That includes three professional music teachers, one of whom is the Assistant Dean of the Music Faculty. I see more correlation between HOW people were taught and learnt in their younger days, than WHAT people were taught and learnt. There is a lot of innate and/or inherited ability to do things certain ways, or at least tendencies, and two children of the same parents can have vastly different abilities and propensities. Let me give an example. Good friends of ours are both music teachers at the secondary school level in very good schools. Rob also plays in or coaches a couple of brass bands and an orchestra, while Jan is one of those people you can give any sheet of music too and she will just sit at the piano and play it. Jan is a very good user of PCs and products such as Word, Powerpoint etc, but really struggles with things like macros in Excel. Rob hates computers, is an average user of Word and won't go near Excel because it's too confusing. The Assistant Dean plays more instruments than I can name, is very good with PCs except that he always has to get someone to help him with macros or anything complicated like that. He also hands everything to do with money to his wife as his arithmetic is abyssmal. Yet another musician I know has taught himself C++ so that he can get the PC to play his home made synthesiser; and another friend who was a superb cabinet maker/carpenter is now network manager for a fairly large company. And a couple of good programmers I know are about as musical as broken glass. Russell

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Russell, Good point, but even a talented musician could make a melody out of broken glass. Perhaps the Andy Warhol Overature? -bret

[J.Pluta]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I'm going to reiterate what I said so fuzzily to Barbara earlier... it's not necessarily that you are a good musician, but instead in how you RELATE to the music. I know technically proficient musicians who have very little innate feel for the music, while I know people who have never played an instrument who simply melt into a good composition, soaking in the phrasing and the nuance. For example, I am not a great musician. I am at best a serviceable keyboard player. I am not exactly scintillating when playing "covers" (that is, playing someone else's songs), I'm just the one who usually gets drafted into playing the Christmas carols at family gatherings. But there was one magical exception. One night I sat down and recorded over the space of about four hours (using a keyboard and a MIDI workstation) a piece I call "Miami Nights" that I've over the years played for people and they swear it's a soundtrack from a movie or a video. ("Where have I heard that? Is that the new enter a band name here? Isn't that from recent movie here?") It happened because, for that brief time, I was truly in tune with the music. I instinctively KNEW which instrument to add, where to speed the track up, where to add a bend, where to change keys, where to add that most expressive of all musical instruments, silence. Sounds registered in my head before I even consciously recognized them; some parts, "all" I had to do was simply play the music that was already inside my head. Echo, reverb, flange, all made perfect sense at the time - I understood the language. For a brief moment. Rarely since repeated and never to that extent. On the other hand, I AM able to do that with programming languages. Quite regularly. My relationship with opcodes is not one of legos, but more of paints. This analogy becomes even more pertinent in object oriented programming, where, above a certain mundane level of programming, there are no opcodes except the ones you build yourself. All is a subtle shading of previous work, adding onto things here and shaving them off there, adding a nuance, changing an interpretation, coloring a meaning. After a time, you can sense when a certain programming construct (typically a class) has become unwieldy - much like when you've added one too many high-hat taps or flute trills. Ugh. I hate when I drift into the metaphysical. But there is an art, a sense of knowing, a "zen" of object-oriented programming that is definitely the same as playing a killer lick, or swinging that perfect batting stroke, or writing that classic lyric, except that with programming, like with music, what you've done is, in a sense, made a truly abstract thing real. Unlike most arts or sports, where the achievement is something completely unique to the artist, a truly masterful piece of programming is a crystallization of the abstract into something other people can touch and hold and use. Once I've created a killer Java class, everybody else can use it, without even understanding the work that went into it - just like a stunning guitar riff, which every garage band guitarist in the world can play without ever really being creative. You can't make a Monet, but you can play an Angus. Play the first few chords of AC/DC's Back in Black. Anybody with fingers can do it; it's not rocket science, it's not even particularly difficult. But it's inspired - if you're in tune with that kind of classic rock, you can't fail but react, can't help but feel what Angus was trying to say. And a good algorithm is inspired in the same way - an elegant latticework that somehow manages to pull the fragile filament of a human thought out of the ether and trap it in programmatic amber for all time, for anyone to use. And WHEW, I'm guessing I've had enough coffee for one evening . Joe

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Russell Neilson wrote: And a couple of good programmers I know are about as musical as broken glass. So they would like the aleatory music of John Cage or Karlheinz Stockhausen :-) Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

And my programming has been compared to 4'33" Bill

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

It happened because, for that brief time, I was truly in tune with the >music. I instinctively KNEW which instrument to add, where to speed the >track up, where to add a bend, where to change keys, where to add that most >expressive of all musical instruments, silence. Sounds registered in my head >before I even consciously recognized them; some parts, "all" I had to do was >simply play the music that was already inside my head. Echo, reverb, flange, .all made perfect sense at the time - I understood the language.

The word music comes from the greek word muse. According to greek mythology, a muse was a spirit that was instrumental (pun intended) at inspiring an artist in their work. As a Christian, I do not believe in muse'. I do believe in demons. . .and they appear to be influencing most of what is past as popular music. -Chris

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I certainly don't mean to say that all music is inspired by demons. Some is inspired by God and gives glory to Him. Some music is simply created from the artistic ability of a person, good or bad depending on the person. No offense intended to Joe or any artists. -Chris

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

I have actually been to performances that included 4'33". It is usually done for laughs, and to break up the rest of the program. Readers may be unfamiliar with this John Cage piece, and I'll not be the one to tell 'em. :-) Dave

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Chris Stafford wrote: . I do believe in demons. . .and they appear to be influencing most of what is past as popular music. You have opened a great can of worms here, Chris. This arguement has been put forth from the pulpits of America from the turn of the century, and even centuries prior. It should be noted that the interval of the Augmented fourth, or diminished fifth if you prefer was banned from all "Christian" Music as early as the sixth century. The reason being was that this interval (which lies precisely midway between an octave) was deemed to be the Diabolicus Musicalus. It was serious stuff back then. IMO there are no demons in music. These demons are only realized by those that give them creedance. Witness the riots in New York City over an opera performance at the Winter Garden in 1848, or the street riots in Paris over Stravinsky's "Le Sacre Du Printemps" in 1912. Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Chris: I agree with David. You've opened a gigantic can of worms with your religiously prejudiced statements. Suffice it to say that you should enjoy and revel in the music you like and allow others to enjoy the music they like. All music is appreciated by its adherents and disdained by its detractors.

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

THis reader is not familiar with the 4'33" piece. However, having heard the neighbours kids writing a symphony for saucepan, spoon, stick, bottle, rubbish bin and dog, I think I understand the feeling some music can inspire. But to quote Bung from the wizard of id "I'll take a fifth of Beethoven". Russell

[T.Holt]

Musicality in the Programming Field

You've opened a gigantic can of worms with your religiously prejudiced statements. Suffice it to say that you should enjoy and revel in the music you like and allow others to enjoy the music they like. All music is appreciated by its adherents and disdained by its detractors. Chris's statements are religious, but not prejudiced. To prejudge is to judge beforehand. That is, to judge an individual based on membership in a group. Chris didn't pass judgement on any particular piece of music. True, all music is appreciated by some and disdained by others, but this is also beside the point. Chris said he (or she, whichever) believes that some music is inspired by spiritual beings from the evil side of another world. That is his prerogative. Chris's implication is that some music is better than other music. I hope no one would disagreee. I can't believe that rap music that calls for violence against women is just as good as a Beethoven symphony, just as I don't believe that Cap'n Crunch is just as healthy for breakfast as oatmeal. Anyway, Chris is just as entitled to his opinions--and has just as much right to express them--as anybody else.

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

No doubt that while hearing the 2 note interval of a diminished fifth, one can sense an unexplainable erieness, but to the contrary, while using this interval strategically placed within a 'blues scale' phrase, it helps project a bit of swing to an already racy phrase. Of interest, (to those out their that may have digital cable, or what have you), there is a music channel with an excellant show hosted by Sir George Martin, (of Beatles fame), that attempts to explore and define the mechanics of music, and just why hearing certain modes and certain rhythms can 'have an effect' on the listener.

[David Abramowitz]

Musicality in the Programming Field

The original chant, written in the age when the "Diabolicus Musicalus" was law, was all in unison. The interval could not proceed from one note to the next. Sounding both notes together was entirely out of the question. To this day, I am aware of only one piece that begins with the interval of an augmented fourth. That is Leonard Bernstein's "Maria" from "West Side Story". Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Musicality in the Programming Field

Excuse me Ted: But Chris's statement: "I do believe in demons. . .and they appear to be influencing most of what is past as popular music." is a religiously prejudiced remark!