Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

[J.Pluta]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

That's a good strategy, however, it would certainly HELP all of us if IBM would not let Micro$oft win a propaganda war. Well, we have two issues here: 1. What IBM is going to do. 2. What we're going to do. Our only effect on category one would seem to me to be a letter writing campaign of some type. We could seriously put together a few of our better ideas, then get a open-letter consumer petition together and send it to IBM. And not just to the marketing department, but up and down the chain to try and ensure that it doesn't hit the wastebasket upon arrival (marketing seems to be prone to not listening to what we lowly consumers say). At the same time, we should publish the petition on the net (I'd be happy to put it up on Java400.net) and then pointedly reserve a space for an IBM response. Or lack thereof. Keeping that nice white page would be an interesting exercise, no? Other than that, there's little we as non-IBM-decision-makers can do. At least in category one. So now it's on to category two. I've already made clear what I intend to do for the platform. What can others do? Ask yourself what you personally can do. It can be as little as posting a few ideas for the petition, or can be as much as providing design and code for an open-source product. Or even become a partner in an NQOS product. (NQOS is short for Not Quite Open Source, where you sell the product cheaply but definitely with the idea of getting a couple of bucks.) But the key issue here is to decide in your heart how much you're willing to do, and then do it. Joe

[J.Pluta]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

(seen any doggie sock puppet ads recently?) Yes I did, in a way. A local brick-and-mortar franchise by the name of Tuesday Morning has a quarter-page add in today's Tribune touting a 50%-86% sales on... liquidated Pets.com merchandise. They even show the doggie in the add. And if THAT isn't a sign of the dot-times, I dunno what is.

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Joe Pluta wrote: With a couple of real sites to point to, we may be able to better address these issues and convince some CEO/CFO types. Respectfully disagreeing with your methods Joe, not with the substance. CEO/CFO types don't surf. They have others who do that. What they do, do, is schmooze. This is accomplished by conferencing, or playing golf, or a more formal business meeting structure. The level of the schmoozee is similar, more than likely a senior partner, or another exec. A word to the wise, a blink and a nod, and that's how business decisions are made - for better or worse. Entire projects are started, or not started after a business luncheon or golf date. MS and Sun have formed strategic partnerships with "Big 5" firms, who then impart their wisdom to the exec of the end business, who then tells the IT director that he/she must make it happen - bad, good or indifferent. Dave

[J.Pluta]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

CEO/CFO types don't surf. They have others who do that. Yeah, CIOs. Or IS managers. Every one of my clients - the guys who made the decision, and whose butt was on the line for it - is an IS manager or CIO type who reports to the "big cheese". At this point, we as a community have vey little to show those guys, and therefore nothing they can report to their bosses. I have to sell based on my reputation in the community and my innate good looks and cooking ability. Okay, one out of three... A word to the wise, a blink and a nod, and that's how business decisions are made - for better or worse. This may happen at some places, but lately I've been seeing a call for accountability. Prospects have been asking tough questions and making decisions based on the answers. Interestingly, I used to hear what you just expressed coming from sales execs at SSA after they lost a big deal - when the real reason they lost it is that they didn't roll up their sleeves and do the work. In most cases, they waltzed in thinking it was a done deal, didn't do their due diligence, and got wiped out at the negotiating table by somebody who actually gave a crap. Those guys tended not to last too terribly long in the department, but there was always a new one willing to step in and blame "the good old boys network" or "corporate nepotism" or some other BS. Truth is, create an outstanding product at an unbeatable price and you WILL get customers. Maybe not EVERY customer, but more than you need. On the other hand, try to squeeze the market for what you think it will bear, and the market will bury you. And wait for IBM to market your product or services, and, well, I hope you've got some money put away to tide you over.

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

CEO/CFO types don't surf. They have others who do that. What they do, do, is schmooze. ... and they watch TV and they tend to believe Madison Avenue hype. If all they see and hear is how wonderful and how reliable M$ servers are, it will be very difficult to undo that perception. They will consider the slick AS/400 websites an exception rather than the rule.

[frankgw@adelphia.net]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

"To me, that could be B2B or B2C." ---------------------------------------- Susan - Could it be that IBM figures the B2B marketplace is much larger and therefore worth their pursuing with iseries (AS/400) marketing? Could it be that the B2C marketplace is smaller, more fragmented, whatever and may not be worth pursuing via iseries (AS/400) marketing? Could it be that there are more options and less expensive options available for developing B2C sites in the PC server area? ------------------------------------------ Anyone - Why does IBM push B2B use of the iseries and by comparison ignore the B2C use?

[R.Daugherty]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

"Why does IBM push B2B use of the iseries and by comparison ignore the B2C use?" Frank, in my opinion IBM has one vision, Websphere, and its related support systems such as MQSeries. They don't care where this software runs. Sure, they want to sell IBM boxes, but they'll sell Websphere on any OS. They are convinced that OS specific advantages such as OS/400 offers are more negative than positive. At best, they see OS/400 as an easier to administer OS than others, and that's it. I saw an ad yesterday... Websphere Commerce Server. The list of servers it runs on doesn't include the AS/400. My opinion is that Joe has expressed it best, either we have something to show on the AS/400 or we don't, but it's up to us. IBM is selling so called cross platform software that maybe makes it to OS/400 sooner or later, but despite AS/400 having all latest technologies, current nationally advertised IBM "cross platform" software doesn't run on it. And certainly very few other software systems that run on Unix and NT run on the AS/400. IBM is probably not pushing because there's nothing to push. I agree with Joe. There's not much more to say to IBM, it's time to roll up your sleeves... Ralph

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Could it be that IBM figures the B2B marketplace is much larger and therefore worth their pursuing with iseries (AS/400) marketing? Frank, We can only guess at what IBM, or any other large corporation figures. I do not work for IBM, but I have worked almost exclusively for VERY large (100,000+ employees) US corporations for the past 14 years. Every decision is driven by what maximizes the bottom line now, in the short term, sometimes at the expense of the long term good. Employee morale is a wonderful thing, as long as it doesnt cost too much money. Some economist, I forget exactly who, won the Nobel Peace Prize for the concept that basically says dont put all of your eggs in one basket. In other words, it makes better economic sense to sell 1000 widgets at $1 each, than to sell 1 widget for $1000. The profit is the same in either case ($1,000) but the RISK is far greater if all of your income is dependent on just the one customer. But the corporate culture seems to favor the opposite, perhaps because its easier on the sales staff or whomever. I am trying to draw a correlation between the numerous smaller customers and the B2C customers. In my opinion, the big consulting companies (IBM, Accenture or Andersen Consulting or whatever they are called this week) tend to stick with their own kind, so to speak - which are other large businesses. The very small web design companies, or independent contractors, seem to be the ones handling most of the B2C business. Could it be that the B2C marketplace is smaller, more fragmented, whatever and may not be worth pursuing via iseries (AS/400) marketing? The B2C marketplace is more fragmented than B2B. Whether or not any business is worth persuing is in the eye of the beholder. If it were me, any business that has the potential to generate income is worth persuing. I would be willing to bet that if the sales executives in the big consulting companies were working for themselves, they would actively persue the smaller clients more than they do while representing their large employer. But consider how those guys are evaluated and rewarded ... they get their kudos and the Hawaiian vacations and the email from the CEO for closing the big mega deal, not so much for closing lots of smaller deals. The guy who generates a lot of smaller dollar contracts will maybe get an honorable mention at the department Christmas party. If you add up all of his/her sales, it could rival the one big sale in terms of revenue generated, but the attention and the accolades seem to be showered on the guy who lands the one big fish. Could it be that there are more options and less expensive options available for developing B2C sites in the PC server area? There are a million ways to do websites. I have been working on the AS/400 for 10 years, and I like the machine. I can do graphics & multimedia (Flash, Director, Authorware, etc.) and I am beginning to do websites on my own time, but not on the AS/400. I'd like to, maybe, but that's not what most of the world is using to serve up web pages. I'd like to see that change, so I can leverage my skills set. This is why I am very concerned to see Micro$oft beginning the propaganda war by claiming to have the most reliable machines in a high profile TV ad campaign. If this goes unchallenged it will become fact because they will destroy their competition, again. What it boils down to is this: How much of IBM's profits are related to the AS/400? What's the percentage? Does anyone know? If it's a relatively small amount, that would explain IBM's indifference. If it's a relatively large percentage, then I wonder what they are waiting for.

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Joe Pluta wrote: Truth is, create an outstanding product at an unbeatable price and you WILL get customers I won't disagree with you Joe, but I see you are standing with a Betamax guy, and an OS/2 guy, and they are both driving 1949 Tuckers. Dave

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Sue Behrens wrote: ...and they watch TV Naaahhh,, they do read Forbes though, and will latch on to the gimmick of the month. Dave

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Frank Whittemore asked: Why does IBM push B2B use of the iseries and by comparison ignore the B2C use? I don't think that that's necessarily the case. Just attend an IBM demo, or tech conference, and you will see that all the demos are retail. The way they speak when doing the demo, you'd think the entire audience was a retail focus group. Dave

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Naaahhh,, they do read Forbes though, and will latch on to the gimmick of the month. Why do you think that so many large technology companies such as EDS, Accenture (formerly Andersen Consulting) and others spend millions on a 30 second Super Bowl ad? The average slob watching the game and drinking beer cannot afford to hire those guys to build their personal home page with baby pictures of Uncle Harry. Those ads were really meant to convey that they are big players (pun intended) and can afford to buy a Super Bowl ad. And that will be a good ice breaker for the golf course converstations.

[J.Pluta]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

I won't disagree with you Joe, but I see you are standing with a Betamax guy, and an OS/2 guy, and they are both driving 1949 Tuckers. Cute, but useless. Empty words. For every Betamax there's a Harley Davidson, or a Mrs. Fields, or a Subway. Or, for that matter, a Macintosh. Good products DO prevail. Sure, sometimes even good ideas fail, or lose to the vicissitudes of the market. So you make another good product, and try again. But to point to those losses and say, "See? There's nothing I can do!" is the oldest and weakest of excuses. Guess what? Just about every first in human history was preceded by failures. Who was right? The guys who sat on his butt and said it couldn't be done, or the guy who finally did it? Or for that matter, the ones who didn't do it - but at least tried? Well, I'm gonna try. Succeed or fail, at least I'll be trying. Are you gonna be part of the attempt, or just one of the spectators? If it's the latter, I'll be sure to send you a foam finger and a bag of peanuts. But I don't have any more time to waste talking about my chances - I only have time to make my opportunities.

[frankgw@adelphia.net]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

"and you will see that all the demos are retail." ----------------------------------------------------------------- David - What software languages, tools and/or middleware were they promoting for the development of the web sites?

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Joe Pluta wrote: Well, I'm gonna try Way to go Joe, , , , ...No one's saying you shouldn't. I do wish you the very best of success. Personally I think your concepts are excellent, and thus far, your execution has succeeded where similar attempts by others have failed. You do have a good product. In fact, if you are ever seeking partners you may contact me on a personal basis. And.... You missed my point. You really really missed my point if you think that SUBWAY makes a superior sandwich. Dave