Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

"The days when a person can code RPG for a living are numbered, but that doesn't mean there won't be jobs for us, just that we'll have to do other things. That suits me. I'm tired of writing code anyway" You've been reading too much MC, Ted. Technically you are correct, but applying that same reasoning, the days of any programming language are numbered. Except COBOL. That never seems to go away. Brad

[R.Daugherty]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Clifton wrote: "Take my web project for example. It was out-sourced to another company that didn't know the AS/400. They knew ASP, SQL server, and other M$ technologies. They needed a doo-hickey to interface w/ our AS/400 so they turned to a third party package which extend a Java interface. Since they knew relatively little Java, they scraped together some very basic coding techniques to put it all together in their web application. Now our exisiting package on the '400 also interface w/ another technology group down the road from us. They use VB and FoxPro to dynamically print documents as they are ordered online. They out-sourced company is now running to the end of contract and our local team (of RPG pgmrs) is stuck in the niddle of all this technolgy looking for a direction. Now we have new management who is looking at Oracle and the whole thing becomes a mess. Too much." Clifton, I re-quoted that entire description because, although I'm by no means as well travelled as many in here, this is precisely the process that I have seen in every AS/400 shop so far, as I have posted often. Politically, I don't see where it will change unless the AS/400 people are able to show superior approaches to the mess that is too much, assuming they have the opportunity to work from a PDM like environment as Nathan as described generating code that Joe has described in ways that are so obviously potent because of innate integration that the value added is appreciated. And that's if you have been able to even catch the ear of the powers that be that more than likely had already arranged for web serving to be handled by a PC group, meaning it's too late by then. Maybe if really cool, integrated development tools are available for the AS/400 a pre-emptive strike can be made... Ralph

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

That's a good point as well Ralph. That's what has been missing the whole time is a truly integrated development environment. It's a shame how you have to borrow tools from other vendors and/or IDEs to build a web app for the AS/400. (Note: I make no mention of Websphere studio b/c it didn't come w/ our '400 so I have no experience w/ it.) Then on top of that you have to jump across the documentation gaps between vendors and/or IDEs for support.

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

The out-sourced company is now running to the end of contract and our local team (of RPG pgmrs) is stuck in the middle of all this technology looking for a direction.  Now we have new management who is looking at Oracle and the whole thing becomes a mess.

If a complex technology causes both programmers and managers find themselves in a state of confusion, it sounds like an opportunity for the consulting company to offer another sales pitch to put everything strait.  What's their vision of your future?  Will they propose an extension of the contract?  Is their more ASP and SQL Server on the horizon?  How did Oracle get added to the mix?

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Our poor department has undergone so many changes in the past year. It started with the introduction of a new IT director. Almost at the same time our company took over another small company with an IT dept that was doing the same thing we were doing only they were runnning on an NT platform. (This is where the ASP SQL stuff started.) Also at that time we outsourced to another company to build a web face to our order entry screens. After a couple months, management started looking to consolidate all of our work onto one platform. This sparked an intrest in which platform would be best. From there the director started looking at Oracle. This would become a possible future goal. In the meantime the director made the decision to consolidate all of our work onto the existing NT system we have. (Mainly b/c it has the bells/whistles and less layers of complexity than the out-sourced project.) One question sticks out in my mind however... that's reliability. Management seems to think the NT can do everything the '400 can (which is plausible) but noone seems concerned about the reliability factor. Anyway I just hope others can learn some from my experiences.

[frankgw@adelphia.net]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

"It started with the introduction of a new IT director" ------------------------------------------------ Was his previous background AS/400, WINTEL or something else? How much do you think that influenced the changes at your site? What was his previous database backgroud - Oracle or something else?

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

How much input do you have in the decision making process? Dave

[T.Holt]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Nathan said: Ok, Ted. How about one programmer, and one documenter. I'll take the programming job, you take the other. Sounds good, Nathan! Seriously, everybody ought to do some of both.

[T.Holt]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Ted said: "The days when a person can code RPG for a living are numbered, but that doesn't mean there won't be jobs for us, just that we'll have to do other things. That suits me. I'm tired of writing code anyway" Brad replied: You've been reading too much MC, Ted. Technically you are correct, but applying that same reasoning, the days of any programming language are numbered. Except COBOL. That never seems to go away. It used to be that a person could work all the hours he wanted writing RPG code, at least here in the Great State of Mississippi. Folks wrote RPG year after year after year because lots of places had S/34's, /36', etc. A lot of that work has dried up as (1) some places are now running Windows instead; (2) some places that used to hire programmers to write custom code now use packages and consulting firms instead; (3) some places no longer have their own computers, because somebody bought them out and integrated them into their existing DP; (4) possibly other reasons I can't think of. So, whereas I used to be able to tell a headhunter "I work in RPG -- that's what I do -- that's all I do", nowadays I may have to be willing to take something else, at least if I want to stay here. Even if I find a job in an RPG shop, I may still have to learn other things -- Windows NT networking, HTML, VB, etc. -- because more and more iSeries (AS/400) shops have other systems as well. As for COBOL, it's a great language for business programming, just as RPG is. Both are simple tools that handle the things businesses need to do & aren't muddled with the complexity that the scientific/mathematical weinies need. But all of it will die, given time. If I live to be 90, which is sort of a goal I have, even though it's out of my hands, I have another 46.333 years to live yet. Do you reckon COBOL & RPG will be around then?

[nycsusan@hotmail.com]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

I have another 46.333 years to live yet. Do you reckon COBOL & RPG will be around then? Yup. Cobol will for sure, though not necessarily on the AS/400. As long as big mainframes are around, Cobol will be running on them, IMO.

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Ted Holt wrote: Seriously, everybody ought to do some of both. The old saw goes "Real programmers don't document" 'cause if it was difficult to write, it should be difficult to understand :-) Dave

[David Abramowitz]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

Ted Holt asked: Do you reckon COBOL & RPG will be around then? At least until the Y10K problem arises!! :-) Dave

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

It gets lost anyway even when people are around. As for RPG, people have been telling me for the past 20 years RPG and programming in general will go away. Also, we will nolonger use paper! Who are these people?

[Guest.Visitor]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

I have another 46.333 years to live yet.

Hey, Ted.  We're just about the same age.  Hope to see you around at 90 .

[J.Pluta]

Has IBM relinquished the B2C marketplace to the competition?

I'm a whippersnapper... I've still got about 50.3333 years left 'til I hit 90 .